You raise some good points. I personally think trope examples should be limited to those that are plot points or are explicitly called out by other characters or the characters themselves.
Oddball Nerd
Random observation I made the other day: There are two types of hypocrites in fiction - those who are intentionally written as hypocrites (generally characters we are meant to dislike or have a reputation for being self-righteous), and those who are inadvertently written as hypocrites (i.e. the writer didn't think about whether the character's actions match what has already been established about them). Is that worth anything?
"Detecting trace amounts of mental activity. Possibly a dead weasel or a cartoon viewer"
RWBY entry:
- Raven does it again when her daughter, Yang, finally catches up to her. Raven treats Yang as a spoiled brat for expecting any sort of special treatment as her daughter, claiming "family only comes around when they need something." She acts like making a portal for Yang would be some huge burden when she can do it as casually as swinging her sword, and offers Yang a "fresh start" as if she's not the one who abandoned her in the first place. Then she gives an Implied Death Threat by saying if Yang joins Qrow, Raven won't be as nice the next time they meet; Yang scoffs and says she isn't nice now.
This is a shoehorn. The vast majority of the entry is viewer perspective — it's personal opinion of a scene rather than a neutral coverage of the scene. Only the very last line is relevant to the trope, but that's the shoehorn: Raven says if that if Yang joins Qrow, she won't be nice the next they meet. Yang points out she wasn't nice now. Raven waits for Yang to leave and then agrees with Yang (a point the entry ignores).
The scene isn't one of hypocrisy: Raven never pretends she's kind and even acknowledges at the end of the scene that she hasn't been kind. What she's saying is that, as bad as this meeting has been, their next meeting will be even worse.
Given that she's actually honest about her lack of kindness in the scene, there's no hypocrisy — indeed, her message is completely true, because their next meeting does indeed go even worse than this one.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies
Nope. There's a very clear parallel between Raven going to Qrow solely for help by playing on familial loyalty, then complaining about Yang showing up looking for help. And she is claiming she's being nice now by graciously not murdering Yang, which Yang calls her out on.
And it's most definitely in-universe, because she is repeatedly called out by Qrow and Yang, even though they don't literally say "you're a hypocrite."
You're jumping around different events that, just because they involve one common person, aren't related the purpose of this trope.
The subject of 'family only coming around when they need something' is a parallel, yes, but it's for the audience alone to make that connection and see it for what it is. Qrow knows nothing about the later Raven/Yang interaction and Yang knows nothing about the previous Qrow/Raven interaction. Yang can't call this out because she doesn't know it's happened. There is no example of the Hypocrisy trope for this parallel because it's not for examples where the audience sees the hypocrisy.
The issue of Raven warning Yang that next time they meet will go far worse and Yang sadly pointing out that she wasn't kind this time (followed by Raven's quiet 'I know' once Yang was out of earshot) is a common thing in storytelling where someone describes their behaviour as having been 'kind' when it clearly hasn't been as a sense of irony — everyone in the scene (including the speaker) knows that 'kindness' isn't what they mean and definitely isn't how they behaved, and that what it really is, is a threat about future behaviour. But it isn't the hypocrisy trope. There should be a trope for it in its own right — it's common enough.
The hypocrisy Qrow called out is already listed on this page as an example and therefore has been covered — that's the argument they had about family loyalty and commitment, when she dismayed at his insults of the tribe and refusal to return when she's abandoned her own daughter.
That leaves the argument between Yang and Raven in the finale as the sole candidate for this trope. The bit in that argument that's the candidate is where Yang calls out Raven's definition of strength. Raven's consistent attitude has been 'the strong survive, the weak perish', and when Yang starts asking 'questions' of Raven's motives about everything, Raven yells at her that she doesn't understand what Raven's been through and how she's had to become strong to survive. That's when Yang tells her to shut up, that she doesn't know the meaning of strength, and that Raven's life hack might be to live by the idea of strength but what she's really doing is living her life as a weak person would. The argument ends on the clear indication that Yang's position is correct: that Raven's has immense power, but she's weak, while Yang has little power, but is much stronger than Raven.
If you want a Hypocrite entry involving Raven and Yang — it's that argument that's the call out to this trope. It's that fight about strength and that Raven's description of herself as strong is hypocrisy to hide what a weak, frightened coward she secretly is that is the example that you're looking for.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
!Disasturbator
The real life examples should either be cut or trimmed.
Edited by Ultimatum New theme music also a box Hide / Show Replies
Good idea, but I'll just keep a note that this simply happens plenty in real life.
Edited by Gundamforce
There are more than a few examples missing that I can name right now, case and point: sleazy politician, badass pacifist, martial pacifist, believing their own lies, implausible deniability, not helping your case, digging yourself deeper, i reject your reality, screw the rules, i have money, screw the rules, i have connections, screw the rules, screw the rules i make them, etc, loophole abuse, consummate liar, bad liar, self-proclaimed liar, designated hero, nominal hero, social darwinist, prefers the illusion, dirty coward, lovable coward, stupid evil, obliviously evil, oblivious to their own description: i, e, calling others stupid while conveniently ignoring the fact the same description applies to them, small name, big ego, smug snake, suicidal overconfidence, virtue is weakness, lack of empathy, no sympathy, a god am i, politically incorrect villain and hero, the bully, barbarian bully, big brother bully, inferiority superiority complex, family values villain, ungrateful bastard, brainwashing, brainwashing for the greater good, villain wants mercy, fantastic racism, fandom myopia, dumb jock, jerk jock, alpha bitch, corrupt corporate executive, lobotomy, anti-intellectualism, pride, dumb muscle, brainless beauty, can't take criticism, narcissist, fighting narcissist, arrogant kung-fu guy, dumb is good, good is dumb, kindhearted simpleton, stupid good, lawful stupid, chaotic stupid, chaotic evil, the corrupter, super gullible, idiot hero, eviler than thou, entitled bastard, big dumb body, even evil has loved ones, morality pet, kick the morality pet, jerkass, faux affably evil, affably evil, a shared suffering, freudian excuse, the brute, the big guy, against my religion, i lied, torture technician, sadist, unsexy sadist, combat sadomasochist, soft-spoken sadist, dissonant laughter, dissonant serenity, self-serving memory, torture technician, you have failed me, you have outlived your usefulness, sympathy to the devil, cry for the devil, quest giver, treacherous quest giver, nostalgia filter, ignorant of their own ignorance, suspiciously specific denial, Manchurian agent, brainwashed and crazy, not brainwashed, brainwash residue, a nazi by any other name, putting on the reich, fundamentalist, kindhearted simpleton, overwhelming exception, church militant.
Edited by KnowoneknowswhoIam
How is plagiarism hypocritical?
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, but all play and no work makes Jack a mere boy Hide / Show Replies
If you plagiarize something that condemns plagiarism, then it becomes hypocritical.
Straw hypocrites are, because their hypocrisy is intentional and they exploit it to advance their evil agendas.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, but all play and no work makes Jack a mere boy
Jesus called out hypocrites for swallowing a gnat but straining at a camel. That's in the quotes for well-intentioned extremist, but wouldn't it fit better in one of the other hypocrisy tropes?
I've seen a number of people who claim they subvert hypocrisy only to see them playing it straight. Is subverting hypocrisy really possible? There are many things (too many things to list, in fact) that people can be hypocritical about. Would that be how they "subvert" hypocrisy?
Hide / Show Replies
Among other things, by demonstrating that their seemingly hypocritical action is actually consistent with their professed standards.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The Dark Lord of Hawaiian Shirts
May I add Revenge Myopia on the list? Taking revenge for something oneself started is blatant hypocrisy.
Srg. Dornan: Troper, what are you doing here?! Get back to your post!!!
No...an hypocrite is someone who pretends a higher moral standard than is the case, not one who doesn't practice what he preaches. An hypocrite is marked by his insincerity, a man can act against what he preaches and still not be a hypocrite...so long as he sincere about it. Al Gore can preach the virtue of saving the environment while running up the gas bill so long as he is sincere in its goodness, even if he hasn't conquered his addiction himself. I can preach the virtue of eliminating lust and go on to look at the most depraved and dirty porn and still not be a hypocrite, so long as I don't add that I am the exemplary model in that respect and I sincerely believe in its goodness. I would edit it, but that would mean deleting almost everything.
Hide / Show Replies
hypocrite noun 1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. 2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
Your definition is not correct, and the examples fit.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.-Philip K. Dick
Happy New Year!
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara both denouncers of bourgeois ways, happen to be seen playing golf a bourgeois form of sport.[1]◊
Golf? GOLF? that's the example we go with? nope not human rights abuse, not living in luxury while his people starved? nope it's fucking GOLF!
hashtagsarestupid
I've noticed that this is featured on half the character entries on the site now, a lot of the time justified from a Doylist perspective with logic that would be consistent with HK-50 saying that miners who intended to murder the Jedi Exile would be hypocrites if they objected to being murdered themselves. Honestly, it just seems too easy to tag this onto any character that's more than a bit player in their story, especially when one ignores that people don't necessarily share your set of moral axioms and may have an internally consistent justification for actions you find inconsistent. I think this trope only has meaning if a character's hypocrisy itself matters to a story, not just if they can be considered one.
Hide / Show Replies