Main Dystopia Justifies The Means Discussion

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05:02:04 PM Feb 1st 2014
I don't really see how these two snowclones of Utopia Justifies the Means make sense. That phrase means "What I'm doing may be evil, but it's morally justified because I'm building a better world." Despotism Justifies the Means and Dystopia Justifies the Means are not offering moral "justifications" at all: the former is just "I don't care what's moral, I'm seizing power because I can", the latter is "I want to make the world a worse place; any evil I do in the pursuit of that is of course a step in the right direction."
02:17:57 AM Feb 2nd 2014
They are taking the snowcloned phrase literally.
09:51:21 AM Sep 16th 2013
How is Darkseid the Trope Codifier? I know about him because some of my friends are comic book nuts (he is the Take Over the World nut compared to galactus Omnicidal Maniac as far as i remember?). But first: he wants to rule everything, the dystopia is just a side effect of him being really nuts. And second: almost everyone knows 1984, as Darkseid is only known to comic book nuts...
11:19:46 PM Sep 20th 2011
No Anime examples? I'm shocked.
08:40:52 PM Sep 2nd 2011
SEELE in Neon Genesis Evangelion used this trope as a stepping stone in their Ancient Conspiracy, purposefully triggering Second Impact and ruining the world to such extent that there would really be no reason for humanity to resist their Assimilation Plot.

The Assimilation Plot was completely secret, and they initiated Second Impact because it was somehow necessary to the Applied Phlebotinum they were going to use for the Assimilation Plot.

Or maybe because the prophecies they were using said that the Assimilation Plot couldn't happen until after Second Impact. Evangelion, why must you be so convoluted!! *shakes fist*

11:25:31 AM Jun 15th 2011
I was wondering, if this trope is "the third, final, and most despicable trope in the unholy trinity of villainous objectives", then what are the other two?
11:26:46 AM Jun 15th 2011
I'm going to guess Take Over the World and Omnicidal Maniac.
04:38:32 AM Jun 24th 2011
04:26:41 PM Apr 25th 2013
edited by
I'm going to guess For the Evulz and Complete Monster, to form a trinity of unjustifiable Moral Event Horizon.

Other villains mentioned above have an ounce of redeemability: the motivation of Utopia Justifies the Means, even when it leads to Take Over the World or Despotism, is based on well-intentioned reasoning (for example, in Crapsack Worlds, heroes will sometimes end up agreeing about the Well-Intentioned Extremist or Totalitarian Utilitarian's notion that crapsack world needs a renovation), and thus is not completely evil. Omnicidal Mania, believe it or not, can sometimes be motivated by well-intentioned desires (e.g. to euthanize the miserable universe, as in Suicidal Cosmic Temper Tantrum), and thus sometimes can be reasoned. However, the Unholy Trinity I've mentioned just want to plunge the world into a living sadistic Hell for the sake of perpetrating Hell and suffering itself and nothing more, with no sympathetic or rational justifications whatsoever.
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