What's Happening

Troperville

Tools

collapse/expand topics back to Main/AccidentalNightmareFuel

 

SeptimusHeap
moderator
topic
11:33:13 AM Apr 28th 2012
Re current changes: As decided here, Accidental Nightmare Fuel is now an exampleless definition page. All examples should now go to Nightmare Fuel.
WarriorSparrow
11:52:32 AM Apr 29th 2012
Removing the examples from the site entirely however, is not right.
ViperAcidZX
03:31:18 PM May 2nd 2012
edited by ViperAcidZX
If you ask me, some of the Accidental Nightmare Fuel entries for Adventure Time is more disturbing than the HONF ones. I mean, what the hell was going on with Pen Ward's head when made the original title card for the Enchiridion? Finn cutting Jake open with a knive and pulling his guts out in cold blood?! Why the fuck would Finn do that — to his adoptive brother?!?

-EDIT- Also I concur with the statement above. Taking any sort of good nightmare material off the site is not cool.
ViperAcidZX
topic
09:18:57 PM Apr 23rd 2012
Where's the index for this?
lu127
moderator
topic
01:36:45 AM Apr 11th 2012
Accidental Nightmare Fuel has been in and out of the Trope Repair Shop for years. It has been misused and suffered massive decay repeatedly. After at least four attempts to fix problems, we came at a dead end, as those who voted to clean it up never did. As such, Accidental Nightmare Fuel can no longer be catalogued.

High Octane Nightmare Fuel is safe for the time being. We are considering how to clear some of its problems.
freakyfred244
08:36:18 AM Apr 11th 2012
How can we bring it back?
Komodin
08:44:44 AM Apr 11th 2012
If you mean the Accidental Nightmare Fuel examples, then sorry, but they're not coming back.
LightsaberGuy
10:17:48 AM Apr 11th 2012
...

...I have no words to express the disappoint and disapproval I am feeling right now...
TheEmptyOne
03:21:54 PM Apr 11th 2012
This... this is insulting and unprofessional. What happened to "if you want something done right, do it yourself"? Or are the mods just deleting any trope that doesn't clean itself up now? This causes a massive number of problems, far more than it solves.

Show some respect for the people who enjoy and appreciate this trope by fixing it instead of destroying it completely.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
03:37:54 PM Apr 11th 2012
^There were 400+ pages and more than 8000 wicks. "Do it yourself" not possible.

And no, if people who appreciate it don't help with maintenance, it goes.
SomeNewGuy
03:42:29 PM Apr 11th 2012
edited by SomeNewGuy
Look, I'm not trying to starting anything again, but do you realize how many people you've alienated with this decision?
TheEmptyOne
04:16:52 PM Apr 11th 2012
The fact that there were 400+ pages and 8000 wicks only supports that deleting this was a horrible and lazy decision.
ccoa
05:14:38 PM Apr 11th 2012
In other words "I want this, but I don't want to work for it. Someone else keep it nice and clean so I can enjoy it."
WarriorSparrow
06:23:40 PM Apr 11th 2012
I'm with everyone else, deleting all the pages was an unfair decision. It and HONF are a large part of why I go on this site in the first place.
LightsaberGuy
08:38:34 PM Apr 11th 2012
^THIS

Also, I really hope we can find an actual solution to all this that may please more than just one side.
TheEmptyOne
09:44:05 PM Apr 11th 2012
edited by TheEmptyOne
Way to treat complaints about a decision with respect and professionalism, Ccoa.

Until its deletion, I wasn't even aware there was a problem with the entries for this trope, and was happy with all the entries as they were. Let's try putting it back up with a few more clarifications on what qualifies and what doesn't, I've seen a lot of them that weren't explained very well. This decision was made without public discussion, without warnings where anyone would notice them. Learn to work with the people editing and maybe you'll get a more positive result.

Just ask for help fixing the problem and give us a chance to do it.
plcthecd
10:33:59 PM Apr 11th 2012
Are you telling me that after all the hard work, it's gone for good?
lu127
moderator
01:25:31 AM Apr 12th 2012
<MOD HAT ON>

Accidental Nightmare Fuel was given multiple chances without anyone ever working on finally doing the cleanup. At the latest attempt, people who voted on keeping it promised to clean it up.

After four months, it turns out that nobody has done anything. Warnings and public discussion were given out plenty. We asked multiple times, but nothing was done. Therefore, its time is more than past.

Accussations of unprofessionalism do not fly here. We are not paid professionals. We are people who like fiction and voluntarily try to keep the site running.

<MOD HAT OFF>

ccoa
05:54:34 AM Apr 12th 2012
edited by ccoa
Addendum to above: There was a week-long headline about the latest TRS thread deciding on ANF, which is visible to everyone. Over 50 people voted in the crowner, which was publicly available in the public TRS thread. Not one of them went on to help out in the Special Efforts thread.

"I didn't know about it" isn't a valid excuse - the problem was made public. Everyone was given notice of the problem and a chance to help fix it.
Nithael
06:05:39 AM Apr 12th 2012
I'd rather we had cut High Octane Nightmare Fuel instead, because even if it was massively and constantly misused since its creation, at least the informed trope was more interesting than just "Wow, that was scary, am I right?". Still, good riddance.
TheEmptyOne
11:39:17 AM Apr 12th 2012
Call it an excuse all you like. I didn't know about it, and I doubt I was the only one- until now, about 99% of what I did here was observation, I rarely added examples at all. A casual editor doesn't necessarily visit the threads. If you want people to notice, put a warning on the main page. People who visit the TRS thread are only the ones who realize something might be wrong.

I still recommend fixing this, and it still sounds to me like the mods and the people complaining about the mess were the ones expecting people to do their work for them. Here's a suggestion for how to repair it: If you don't trust it to fix itself if it's posted back up, then ask for specific volunteers that you can hold accountable, and send them each sections of the archive to divide up the workload. They can each work on whatever pages they know enough about to edit accurately, and once they've all finished you can put the page back up- no need to limit them for time, it's not your problem until they've all sent in their finished work. Just make sure that if you do this, you put the rules in clearer display on the main page and possibly the subpages as well- those are the places people look when they're editing.

Before you accuse me of wanting other people to do the work, I'm perfectly willing to be one of these volunteers. I enjoy editing, and cutting out the entries that don't fit doesn't sound too difficult, I've read over the guidelines a few times since this incident.
ccoa
11:44:12 AM Apr 12th 2012
edited by ccoa
A headline is visible to the entire wiki, on every page. Even if you don't visit the forums, it was available for all to see. There was a banner on the Accidental Nightmare Fuel page saying it had a TRS thread, as well. Anyone with ANF on their watchlist would have been notified the moment it entered TRS.

What more do you want us to do? Spam PM every single user of the site?
TheEmptyOne
12:35:28 PM Apr 12th 2012
I think I just said what could be done now that this has happened. I'm not even asking you to do the work, just find specific people who are willing to do it themselves, and I've volunteered to help. I return your question: what more do you want me to do?

Now, I'm not sure if this headline you mentioned was too vague or if I simply didn't see it, but it's also common for a person to get to a work's subpage through the main page for that work, rather than for the trope. Naturally, anyone who does that wouldn't necessarily see that the TRS thread was there, and even if they did, not all of us know what it means. I admit people in this situation wouldn't have done much research- but we can hardly expect every person here to have gone through the various rules and instructions before editing, we know many people don't. Hence the suggestion that we put some guidelines on the subpages so people are more likely to see them, along with notices when a trope is having serious problems.
ccoa
12:49:27 PM Apr 12th 2012
Honestly, I have no authority to bring the page back, so you're wasting your arguments on me. The decision came from the admin, and he is the only one who can rescind it. I would suggest you take it to the forums rather than here, where it's unlikely that he will see it.
TheEmptyOne
01:00:22 PM Apr 12th 2012
I did look there before this discussion happened, but I wasn't sure precisely where to put these questions and opinions, since I rarely visit the forums. Any suggestions? (Asking sincerely here, please respond the same way.)
ccoa
01:25:08 PM Apr 12th 2012
Wiki Talk would probably be the closest fit.
WarriorSparrow
08:38:43 PM Apr 13th 2012
I'm bummed that the Nightmare Fuel pages for the different works got removed - I always liked looking at the one for MLP:Fi M, and Pokemon, and other things. As I said before, I think that we ought to at least bring the pages back for a time somehow - I mostly became a fan of this site for that reason.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
08:01:51 AM Apr 15th 2012
^No, pages won't come back until we have a definitive solution to the problems they brought. Until someone finds the silver bullet, they stay gone.
Mewt
05:51:27 PM Apr 15th 2012
This change might actually suit the page better. Without examples, you're stuck looking at that creepy bunny.
SoreThumb
09:25:26 AM Apr 17th 2012
Hey, guys.

I had no idea what's going on here, but suddenly Accidental Nightmare Fuel/Advertising is gone. I go to the discussion page, and find out absolutely nothing about why the page is gone.

AndyLA
09:45:04 AM Apr 17th 2012
I won't discuss whether it's a valid decision or not (I personally didn't like it, but if it's the higher-ups decision, what to do?), but this raised a question in me: many of the ANF pages had dozens and dozens of entries. So what's gonna happen now that they're gone? Will they clutter the YMMV pages with their multi-page-long lists of entries?

Just asking.
ccoa
10:08:34 AM Apr 17th 2012
ANF is now supposed to be example-less. People just can't keep the "accidental" part straight, nor can they keep from editorializing about it and adding natter.

However, the proposed redefine of High Octane Nightmare Fuel will mean that examples that were previously ANF will be able to be placed there.
wheelrunner
03:33:55 PM Apr 17th 2012
Why not just have an archive for these pages? I understand that it would take up a lot of space but the other Wiki did it, and they have a TON of pages. It seems a lot better than leaving people out in the cold, particularly if they liked the page the way it was but still understand administrative decisions. I joined this site particularly for problems like this, because I grew tired of seeing walls of text and sketchy examples. Is there anyway a normal person can access a page that has been deleted? I would love to help get rid of some of the sketchier examples and the walls of text. I'm very good at that. If a Trope is constantly going to the repair shop, Maybe it just needs to be clarified and not completely redone. It be a lot easier on readers, and maybe easier on the administrative people as well
Someoneman
03:55:07 PM Apr 21st 2012
I'm not sure if this idea would be possible to implement, but what if we made a list of frequently misused tropes and made it so you would have to gain approval in order to be able to add examples or pot hole to a trope. Part of the approval process would be a quiz on the trope that you can take every 24 hours (Feel free to change the time.)
Voyd211
08:07:04 AM Apr 23rd 2012
So, um, a lot of things no longer have Nightmare pages because they were accidental-only. Super Mario Bros., for instance.
Julayla64
11:48:13 AM Apr 24th 2012
Would this mean certain original Nightmare Fuels infos that were once in the Accidental Nightmare Fuel section are to be now moved to High Octaine Nightmare Fuel instead?
Disco30000
04:36:12 AM Apr 28th 2012
Not to disparage the mods and admins, who do a great job at running this website, but this solution smacks of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Sure, some people used undefined examples that didn't really fit. That causes about 10 seconds of minor annoyance at most and you just get on with the page. Besides, there is more to read and what people write is still interesting.

To solve this 'problem' you have to decided to remove the entire section and every single sub-page. I used to really love this site and now it's just frustrating. It seems that TV Tropes is weeding out all of its interesting bits. In fact it increasingly seems like the only pages left will be objective tropes. No offense to people who like them, but the objective parts are the worst parts of the wiki.

girlyboy
topic
12:31:58 AM Mar 3rd 2012
What to do with in-universe examples of this trope? I do not mean High Octane Nightmare Fuel, which is intentionally scary things. I mean, within a work, a character is frightened by something that seems legitimately frightening (i.e. the audience would be frightened by it too), but was not supposed to frighten the character, and may actually be perfectly innocent. This would not be YMMV, since it can be objectively present in the work, seen in a character's reaction, rather than the audience's. I am thinking of an example in the webcomic Never Mind the Gap.
DamianYerrick
07:31:31 AM Apr 15th 2012
You're probably thinking of how Squick has the various Disgust Tropes as in-universe counterparts. I'm wondering that too. Could you list twelve examples so that someone can take Accidental Nightmare Fuel In Universe (needs a better title) to YKTTW?
back to Main/AccidentalNightmareFuel

TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy