Removing the examples from the site entirely however, is not right.
If you ask me, some of the Accidental Nightmare Fuel entries for Adventure Time is more disturbing than the HONF ones. I mean, what the hell was going on with Pen Ward's head when made the original title card for the Enchiridion? Finn cutting Jake open with a knive and pulling his guts out in cold blood?! Why the fuck would Finn do that — to his adoptive brother?!?
-EDIT- Also I concur with the statement above. Taking any sort of good nightmare material off the site is not cool.
Edited by ViperAcidZX
PaperMaster
Accidental Nightmare Fuel has been in and out of the Trope Repair Shop for years. It has been misused and suffered massive decay repeatedly. After at least four attempts to fix problems, we came at a dead end, as those who voted to clean it up never did. As such, Accidental Nightmare Fuel can no longer be catalogued.
High Octane Nightmare Fuel is safe for the time being. We are considering how to clear some of its problems.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer Hide / Show Replies
If you mean the Accidental Nightmare Fuel examples, then sorry, but they're not coming back.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
...I have no words to express the disappoint and disapproval I am feeling right now...
Son, I am thoroughly disappoint..
This... this is insulting and unprofessional. What happened to "if you want something done right, do it yourself"? Or are the mods just deleting any trope that doesn't clean itself up now? This causes a massive number of problems, far more than it solves.
Show some respect for the people who enjoy and appreciate this trope by fixing it instead of destroying it completely.
I like trains.
^There were 400+ pages and more than 8000 wicks. "Do it yourself" not possible.
And no, if people who appreciate it don't help with maintenance, it goes.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Look, I'm not trying to starting anything again, but do you realize how many people you've alienated with this decision?
Edited by SomeNewGuy
The fact that there were 400+ pages and 8000 wicks only supports that deleting this was a horrible and lazy decision.
I like trains.
In other words "I want this, but I don't want to work for it. Someone else keep it nice and clean so I can enjoy it."
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
I'm with everyone else, deleting all the pages was an unfair decision. It and HONF are a large part of why I go on this site in the first place.
^THIS
Also, I really hope we can find an actual solution to all this that may please more than just one side.
Son, I am thoroughly disappoint..
Way to treat complaints about a decision with respect and professionalism, Ccoa.
Until its deletion, I wasn't even aware there was a problem with the entries for this trope, and was happy with all the entries as they were. Let's try putting it back up with a few more clarifications on what qualifies and what doesn't, I've seen a lot of them that weren't explained very well. This decision was made without public discussion, without warnings where anyone would notice them. Learn to work with the people editing and maybe you'll get a more positive result.
Just ask for help fixing the problem and give us a chance to do it.
Edited by TheEmptyOne I like trains.
Are you telling me that after all the hard work, it's gone for good?
<MOD HAT ON>
Accidental Nightmare Fuel was given multiple chances without anyone ever working on finally doing the cleanup. At the latest attempt, people who voted on keeping it promised to clean it up.
After four months, it turns out that nobody has done anything. Warnings and public discussion were given out plenty. We asked multiple times, but nothing was done. Therefore, its time is more than past.
Accussations of unprofessionalism do not fly here. We are not paid professionals. We are people who like fiction and voluntarily try to keep the site running.
<MOD HAT OFF>
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Addendum to above: There was a week-long headline about the latest TRS thread deciding on ANF, which is visible to everyone. Over 50 people voted in the crowner, which was publicly available in the public TRS thread. Not one of them went on to help out in the Special Efforts thread.
"I didn't know about it" isn't a valid excuse - the problem was made public. Everyone was given notice of the problem and a chance to help fix it.
Edited by ccoa Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
I'd rather we had cut High Octane Nightmare Fuel instead, because even if it was massively and constantly misused since its creation, at least the informed trope was more interesting than just "Wow, that was scary, am I right?". Still, good riddance.
Call it an excuse all you like. I didn't know about it, and I doubt I was the only one- until now, about 99% of what I did here was observation, I rarely added examples at all. A casual editor doesn't necessarily visit the threads. If you want people to notice, put a warning on the main page. People who visit the TRS thread are only the ones who realize something might be wrong.
I still recommend fixing this, and it still sounds to me like the mods and the people complaining about the mess were the ones expecting people to do their work for them. Here's a suggestion for how to repair it: If you don't trust it to fix itself if it's posted back up, then ask for specific volunteers that you can hold accountable, and send them each sections of the archive to divide up the workload. They can each work on whatever pages they know enough about to edit accurately, and once they've all finished you can put the page back up- no need to limit them for time, it's not your problem until they've all sent in their finished work. Just make sure that if you do this, you put the rules in clearer display on the main page and possibly the subpages as well- those are the places people look when they're editing.
Before you accuse me of wanting other people to do the work, I'm perfectly willing to be one of these volunteers. I enjoy editing, and cutting out the entries that don't fit doesn't sound too difficult, I've read over the guidelines a few times since this incident.
I like trains.
A headline is visible to the entire wiki, on every page. Even if you don't visit the forums, it was available for all to see. There was a banner on the Accidental Nightmare Fuel page saying it had a TRS thread, as well. Anyone with ANF on their watchlist would have been notified the moment it entered TRS.
What more do you want us to do? Spam PM every single user of the site?
Edited by ccoa Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
I think I just said what could be done now that this has happened. I'm not even asking you to do the work, just find specific people who are willing to do it themselves, and I've volunteered to help. I return your question: what more do you want me to do?
Now, I'm not sure if this headline you mentioned was too vague or if I simply didn't see it, but it's also common for a person to get to a work's subpage through the main page for that work, rather than for the trope. Naturally, anyone who does that wouldn't necessarily see that the TRS thread was there, and even if they did, not all of us know what it means. I admit people in this situation wouldn't have done much research- but we can hardly expect every person here to have gone through the various rules and instructions before editing, we know many people don't. Hence the suggestion that we put some guidelines on the subpages so people are more likely to see them, along with notices when a trope is having serious problems.
I like trains.
Honestly, I have no authority to bring the page back, so you're wasting your arguments on me. The decision came from the admin, and he is the only one who can rescind it. I would suggest you take it to the forums rather than here, where it's unlikely that he will see it.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
I did look there before this discussion happened, but I wasn't sure precisely where to put these questions and opinions, since I rarely visit the forums. Any suggestions? (Asking sincerely here, please respond the same way.)
I like trains.
Wiki Talk would probably be the closest fit.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
I'm bummed that the Nightmare Fuel pages for the different works got removed - I always liked looking at the one for MLP:Fi M, and Pokemon, and other things. As I said before, I think that we ought to at least bring the pages back for a time somehow - I mostly became a fan of this site for that reason.
^No, pages won't come back until we have a definitive solution to the problems they brought. Until someone finds the silver bullet, they stay gone.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
This change might actually suit the page better. Without examples, you're stuck looking at that creepy bunny.
Hey, guys.
I had no idea what's going on here, but suddenly Accidental Nightmare Fuel/Advertising is gone. I go to the discussion page, and find out absolutely nothing about why the page is gone.
I won't discuss whether it's a valid decision or not (I personally didn't like it, but if it's the higher-ups decision, what to do?), but this raised a question in me: many of the ANF pages had dozens and dozens of entries. So what's gonna happen now that they're gone? Will they clutter the YMMV pages with their multi-page-long lists of entries?
Just asking.
One Nation Under WiFi
ANF is now supposed to be example-less. People just can't keep the "accidental" part straight, nor can they keep from editorializing about it and adding natter.
However, the proposed redefine of High Octane Nightmare Fuel will mean that examples that were previously ANF will be able to be placed there.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Why not just have an archive for these pages? I understand that it would take up a lot of space but the other Wiki did it, and they have a TON of pages. It seems a lot better than leaving people out in the cold, particularly if they liked the page the way it was but still understand administrative decisions. I joined this site particularly for problems like this, because I grew tired of seeing walls of text and sketchy examples. Is there anyway a normal person can access a page that has been deleted? I would love to help get rid of some of the sketchier examples and the walls of text. I'm very good at that. If a Trope is constantly going to the repair shop, Maybe it just needs to be clarified and not completely redone. It be a lot easier on readers, and maybe easier on the administrative people as well
I'm not sure if this idea would be possible to implement, but what if we made a list of frequently misused tropes and made it so you would have to gain approval in order to be able to add examples or pot hole to a trope. Part of the approval process would be a quiz on the trope that you can take every 24 hours (Feel free to change the time.)
So, um, a lot of things no longer have Nightmare pages because they were accidental-only. Super Mario Bros, for instance.
Would this mean certain original Nightmare Fuels infos that were once in the Accidental Nightmare Fuel section are to be now moved to High Octaine Nightmare Fuel instead?
Not to disparage the mods and admins, who do a great job at running this website, but this solution smacks of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Sure, some people used undefined examples that didn't really fit. That causes about 10 seconds of minor annoyance at most and you just get on with the page. Besides, there is more to read and what people write is still interesting.
To solve this 'problem' you have to decided to remove the entire section and every single sub-page. I used to really love this site and now it's just frustrating. It seems that TV Tropes is weeding out all of its interesting bits. In fact it increasingly seems like the only pages left will be objective tropes. No offense to people who like them, but the objective parts are the worst parts of the wiki.
What to do with in-universe examples of this trope? I do not mean High Octane Nightmare Fuel, which is intentionally scary things. I mean, within a work, a character is frightened by something that seems legitimately frightening (i.e. the audience would be frightened by it too), but was not supposed to frighten the character, and may actually be perfectly innocent. This would not be YMMV, since it can be objectively present in the work, seen in a character's reaction, rather than the audience's. I am thinking of an example in the webcomic Never Mind the Gap.
Hide / Show Replies
You're probably thinking of how Squick has the various Disgust Tropes as in-universe counterparts. I'm wondering that too. Could you list twelve examples so that someone can take Accidental Nightmare Fuel In Universe (needs a better title) to YKTTW?
Re current changes: As decided here
, Accidental Nightmare Fuel is now an exampleless definition page. All examples should now go to Nightmare Fuel.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman Hide / Show Replies