Discussion Fanfic / Arsenal

It's definitely an Evangelion fic...the Angel fights are still in the mix, and SEELE is still a threat, it's just that there's all this other...stuff...going on that's essentially taken over. The Peggy Sue element really hasn't been explored to a great degree aside from the fact that Shinji seems to remember everything from canon!Eva, all the way through the end of End of Eva, and all of the insanity he's developed is a direct result of this knowledge.

I don't blame you for your reaction, it's an extremely polarizing story and takes a strong stomach to read at times.

Again, Willbyr, I have not actually read the fic. I am telling you what I see from the Tropes page.

If there is Evangelion in this story, it should be mentioned somewhere. Instead all I see is a single mention of the Angels in the Trope Page and a lot of character names. This could, from what I can tell from the trope entry, be completely unrelated to Evangelion while sharing only names.

For a fanfic that's supposed to at least pay lip service to canon events, either this trope entry has Gone Horribly Wrong or the fic has.

No seriously, reading the entry, if I was not very familiar with Eva and Evangelion was not mentioned by name in the first line, I would have no idea what fandom this fic was connected to.

I'm deleting them because viewpoints don't belong on the goddamn trope page.

And I'll stop when you quit using the tropes to whine about shit.

1. Kick the Son of a Bitch works for the Black Bunnies because they're horrible people getting theirs in a horrible way. The only reason you could have for feeling sorry for them is because they're hot chicks who shouldn't be subjected their fates.

2. Disproportionate Retribution is specifically retribution that does not match the crime. The Black Bunnies and Gendo all got theirs for being the monsters that they were. There is nothing Disproportionate about any of it.

3. And neither do you. If you don't want me deleting it, make sure it's actually an example.

Its disproportionate because nothing is proportionate to those punishments. Death or imprisonment is proportionate. Torture, rape, Mind Rape, and so on, however, is much too monsterous. As for feeling sorry... are you advocating torture of real life complete monsters? We limit punitive measures to fines, community service, imprisonment, and death penalties in our legal system for a reason. I don't feel sorry in the slightest for Manuel Noriega or the Unabomber and think they deserve everything that has been done to them IRL, but I also would call mind-raping them, enslaving them, or actually raping them horribly unjust

Their crime is trying to kill off the human race so a handful of old bastards can get their hands on the power of God. I don't think you even begin to grasp the idea of "death is too good for them". Instead of leaving it up to an arbitrary system that may or may not exist (as the "God" mention earlier is more the ideal of an all powerful creator than any Catholic or otherwise version), you can ensure they get theirs.

They murdered the families of people who had done nothing to them to fuck with Shinji's head. They thought nothing of sending armed platoons out after Rei for no better reason than to hurt Shinji. When people were trying to get away from Ramiel, Satsuki gleefully gunned them down and was on the verge of masturbating over the corpses. At no point were these three ever innocent. They are not three people plucked off the goddamn street who are being tortured for the hell of it, they are sick people who deserve this and more.

Oh and btw, most of our modern justice system is built off of years of cruel and unusual punishments and it's taken as fact that people were hanged in the Old West just for the crowd to watch and jeer. And man, did you just dartboard two famous bad people and post them here?

In summation, you seem to think that your "ideal" of justice is what stands for everyone. And I'm here to tell you, you're wrong. Not only wrong, but you're arguing it from a static viewpoint that isn't allowing anything but what you feel is right. At no point do you actually address anything they did except in passing as if they didn't matter.

Satsuki wanted to keep Shinji as a fucktoy, so he returned the favor.

Kaede loved to inflict pain and didn't care who she had to destroy to get her fix, so Shinji cut off her fangs and turned her perversion to the side of good.

Aoi thought of humanity as less than shit, and so she is in turn just a human waste repository. She felt nothing and that's all she'll feel now.

And if you're not morally offended by what Shinji is doing to his father, you have no ground to stand on anyways. You can't go waving the moral flag without at least acknowledging that. If you feel Gendo being shot multiple times, strapped to a bed and beaten with a hammer (with special care to do a real number on his balls) and then locked in Terminal Dogma with no sense of time or anything is somehow "justice", kindly shut the fuck up. GOOD DAY SIR

I, meanwhile, am of the opinion that if you require your villains to be that over-the-top monstrous in order for what your protagonist does to them (described in loving detail, no less) to be remotely justified, your story's got a bit of a problem.

I, am of the opinion, that you seem to have missed the entire point of the story being one long deranged trip down a hole to Violence Land, where blood is shed and by the gallon.

Oh and Apathy? All of this discussion is because no one cares? I think you're a bit off cuff sir.

Upon review of the trope in question, I've decided to throw my lot in with Anonguy. Kick The Son Of A Bitch is in effect for Gendo and the Bunnies because they fit both of the criteria for that trope:

1) The character was kicked. 2) The character who was kicked was an unsympathetic villain.

From a purely objective standpoint, Gendo and the Bunnies both fit the criteria; they are Complete Monsters, and Shinji kicked them. Exactly which part of the trope is supposed to be subjective isn't perfectly clear to me, but I think it's the "unsympathetic villain" part, and at the time they were kicked, Gendo and the Bunnies both fulfilled that requirement. The point I think we're actually disagreeing on here is whether or not they were kicked so hard that they invoked Alas, Poor Villain. Since that's an audience reaction trope, I vote we put APV up with the requisite YMMV notice and stop making troping into Serious Business.

That being said however, I'm pretty much past caring about this page and this fic in general. If you guys can't work this out for yourselves I'm just going to ask the mods to lock the page.

Personally, I would prefer it if everyone didn't focus so much on what Shinji did to the Black Bunnies, given that his other incidents of monstrosity have flown completely under the radar otherwise. I personally don't agree with the philosophy that Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil because I am of the opinion that all of Shinji's acts are abhorrent. Like Shinji taking advantage of Ai's overzealous admiration and her bizarre predilection towards violence to turn her into a killing machine, executing bound and gagged prisoners, the above-mentioned cruelty towards his Father, and of course his initial acts that started the story.

Shinji is a Complete Monster, he is deserving of the title, however I do not believe that anything he's done to the Black Bunnies is disproportionate. They are monsters and this sympathy towards them probably disturbs me more than the fates I wrote for them. I do take a bit of pride in it, though–getting the readers to feel sorry sadistic mass-murdering sociopaths.

Boy, this got hot all of a sudden. For the record, the main reason that I put the Disproportionate Retribution entry on the page was to cover the possibility that someone would actually have that reaction...fair and balanced and all that, and I thought that I had worded it neutrally enough to make that clear...apparently not. Personally, I have no sympathy for the Black Bunnies.