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OracleHunter
topic
05:36:25 PM May 21st 2010
Why is Jacob listed as a complicated character? He's clearly a "Former Villain," what with the bowing and scraping to his betters.
Saint_Ridley
09:47:40 PM May 21st 2010
You mean Celesto, right?
MrDeath
07:25:15 AM May 22nd 2010
I think I summed up pretty well why he's complicated: He's no longer working against the heroes, but he's clearly not working with them either. He's on his own side that, for the moment, just happens to have similar goals to Dominic.
OracleHunter
01:13:39 AM May 23rd 2010
(1) I did mean Celesto.

(2) He is clearly working with the heroes. In the page I linked, he all but begged Dominic to Go Fix Things. This ain't "Storm of Souls" - it's not even "Built to Resist." At best, Celesto is a Lancer - the guy who kills Fourth Casters so that Dominic doesn't have to get his hands dirty.

10 will get you 1 that the next time he shows up he'll stomp around a bit before doing whatever the hell Dominic tells him to do.
LostHero
topic
12:20:23 AM May 17th 2010
I love how the characters are classified based off of the Hatedom's caste system. It put a smile on This Troper's face.
Peteman
04:58:53 AM May 21st 2010
I don't, and I am part of said Hate... snarkdom.
MrDeath
03:05:11 PM May 21st 2010
edited by MrDeath
Christ, this Caste BS again? Do we have to have these pages filtered through the "As the Hate Dom sees it" lenses? I'm gonna go "fix" it.

Edited out all the Caste stuff, as well as the general Hate Dom tone of the page.
OracleHunter
05:57:47 PM May 21st 2010
edited by OracleHunter
The Caste system - aside from being implicitly referenced in-comic - is at the very least a legitimate portion of the Fanon.

For example, when asked why he should spare the vicious and bloodthirsty Barnet Travoria's life, Dominic responded "because she's my sister (in law)." Conversely, when Amelia Travoria - who had actually done some good in her life - is found dead, everyone cracks jokes.

What was the difference? One had jumped up in the Caste System thanks to Dominic's engagement to Luna while the other had not. Adding insult to injury, Mookie later Retconned Amelia's good qualities lest anyone doubt she totally deserved it.

In short: "Why not kill this bloothirsty murderer?" "Because she's Third Caste" "Why did this (less vicious) murderer need to die?" "Because she's Fourth Caste"

Also: Dominic sums up the Caste System - "look at Barthis, where all the people I decided needed a second chance live. Please ignore Serk, Brett, and Amelia - none of them deserved a second chance."

This ain't Dominic Durgan here. And since when are we Wikipedia? While I'd prefer to avoid Edit Wars as much as the next Troper, surely the amount of Snark on the pre-edited page was hardly beyond the bounds of taste.
MrDeath
07:23:35 AM May 22nd 2010
Maybe it's because I'm the one person around here who legitimately likes the comic, but I don't like seeing every page filtered through the "And the comic sucks" lens. And that's how I see the "caste" system. You note I didn't actually change how they're listed; all the same information is still there, except for direct references to the caste system. I just object to the Hate Dom deciding it's the only voice worth listening to.
OracleHunter
01:24:42 AM May 23rd 2010
edited by OracleHunter
Well, bully for you for still liking the comic. I would have thought event he stoutest defender would have quit after the Mighty Whitey "Maltak" Arc :P

In any case, do note that the Caste System correlates with accepted Tropes quite well. The First Caste are the Designated Heroes, the Second Caste are the Nakama, while the Third and Fourth Caste are made up of equally despicable people whom Dominic has decided to separate into Faces and people who die a Karmic Death - most often a Disney Villain Death. It's not just a term of opprobrium; it is a handy and descriptive shorthand for the four categories in which Mookie places all his major characters.

That said, I can understand that the terminology may have a high negative index for you. That's cool - I appreciate your restraint in editing. Still, I felt the need to point out that the Caste System is not just a derogatory framework cooked up by da haterz - it's as useful a piece of Fanon as you find anywhere else.
MrDeath
07:24:06 PM May 23rd 2010
Yeah, I realize that it's, really, no different than sorting the characters for any other show or work. The terminology and the tone is mostly what sets me off.

On an unrelated note, anyone else want to make this character sheet look more like the others, with lists of associated tropes with the various characters instead of just the one sentence each?
OracleHunter
04:18:27 AM May 24th 2010
edited by OracleHunter
I support harmonizing this page with the rest of TV Tropes. Sadly, I don't have the time ATM - and I won't bitch about whatever spin you (Mr. Death) or anyone else puts on the characters in the process. If I don't have the time to put in the work, I shouldn't be spending my time complaining :P

That said - the distinctive point about Dominic Deegan is that you can assign every single major character into these four categories. I cannot think of another high-quality (or even mid-quality) webcomic whose characters could be divided in a similar fashion. Take Girl Genius, for example - tons of antagonists who cannot be classified as Card Carrying Villains, and yet are not co-opted by the central protagonist (Agatha). The support cast has relationships with Agatha ranging from comedic sidekicks to mentors and love interests to minions; sweeping them all under a single category like Nakama would be as inappropriate as it was inaccurate. This is simply not the case with Dominic Deegan.
BlackDragonKing
11:22:46 AM Apr 9th 2011
I've organized it into an actual character page, although I've left the folders as things were organized when I got there. The lack of details on tropes involved in the characters was bugging me.

I sank an hour or two into making the page workable, I just hope people don't start edit wars there now. -_-

Also, just a suggestion, but the comic does in fact have a fanbase to go with its sizable hatedom. Maybe the Just Bugs Me and WMG pages are fine, but I think the main page, the YMMV page, and the Characters page should be written with the assumption that someone bothering to look this up doesn't hate the comic?
LostHero
10:12:49 AM Apr 11th 2011
Huh? Oh, they weren't. It was just that they were arranged in a manner similar to the caste system. Sorry for apparently causing a panic.
MrDeath
11:17:00 AM Apr 11th 2011
Awesome job, BDK, this is something that's been needed for a while.

As a sidenote, I have to know the origin of the "FUCK YOU I'M A BIRD!" thing in Celesto's listing.
BlackDragonKing
01:00:46 AM Apr 16th 2011
I'm pretty sure "FUCK YOU I'M A BIRD" was a meme that started based on Celesto growing wings for his fight with The Beast, but I'm not sure, so I just put in the meme in case someone wants to explain it further.
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