Official materials have Suzaku put Lelouch and Euphemia as his most important people, with him explicitly saying he can't choose between them. Despite him hating Zero, he never stops caring for Lelouch.
Lelouch gets incredibly irrational for him when it comes to Suzaku. The few other people who invoke such reactions are Nunnally (his sister), C.C., Kallen, and Shirley. The latter three are all defined as potential love interests by their interactions. To the point when Mao hurt Suzaku, Lelouch actually tried to punch him.
Also, per the trope page of Ambiguously Bi:
It should be noted that what makes a character Ambiguously Bi and what differentiates them from Bi the Way characters is largely a matter of opinion. The character does not have to officially be declared bi to qualify. As the latter page demonstrates, the B word doesn't have to outright be said to make a character qualify, and, as No Bisexuals demonstrates, even if a character is clearly bisexual to the audience, much of the time the writers don’t consider it as a possibility. Obviously, some form of attraction to people of different genders is required, but the exact extent varies; for some people, an offhand comment or a prolonged glance can be enough; for others, nothing short of onscreen sex can suggest bisexuality as a possibility.
I suggest you really look at the trope page for Ambiguously Bi and spend some time considering what that trope means. In this case, it means Suzaku and Lelouch value each other as very important people to each other, with their narrative arc coming across similar to a love story might in regards to important events in their lives and their interactions.
Another thing to consider is the sheer amount of Ho Yay between them. It might be YMMV, but that means they are acting in such a manner that the audience can look at them and consider their relationship potentially romantic in tone. That kind of ambiguity is what the ambiguous part of Ambiguously Bi means: open to or having several possible meanings or interpretations; equivocal.
It does not mean Bi The Way which you seem to be confusing this trope for; Bi The Way is mostly used when it's confirmed as canon one way or another. In this case, Lelouch and Suzaku have a relationship that brings into question if they are just friends or hold the potential for more.
They don’t need to outright have romantic interest in each other. However there usually a romantic subtext to hint at it and the two simply being close is not enough to qualify. Their relationship has no romantic subtext to back up ambiguously and it most certainly doesn’t play out like a love story.
I understand what ambiously bi means, however two people being close doesn’t qualify them for it. However I’ll relent and readd it.
Edited by BlazingTrolls
Yeah, going to have to agree that this doesn't really apply to Lelouch. The argument seems to boil down to "there's Ho Yay, so it counts" which... no. In fact, Ho Yay would actually be an indicator against a character being Ambiguously Bi unless one of the two is being misused.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Exactly! So do we remove it from both him and Suzaku?
Edited by BlazingTrolls
I don't think it's being misused though. Their relationship is so important to the whole story that they turn to each other even while enemies; they declare themselves friends even in that kind of situation.
I believe the trope means in this case that Suzaku and Lelouch see each other as very important to each other to the point the audience has to pause and wonder at their interactions. Where Lelouch treats Suzaku almost like a boyfriend at times while Suzaku seems to struggle to define his relationship to Lelouch.
It's Ambiguously Bi for the both of them as their relationship is somewhat questionable but there's nothing to say directly in that regard. It means they are so important to each other that their interactions could be that of potential love interests.
So I wouldn't remove it; the point of that trope is that it's ambiguous after all.
Another way to put it is; some people fully and truly believe Lelouch and Suzaku are Bisexual. Others are not 100% certain but there is enough questions raised in their interactions and actions to bring it up as a possibility.
So it's Ambiguously Bi thus; uncertain but certainly there are questions raised by how close they are despite all that goes on in Code Geass.
Yes they are good friends. Again them being close doesn’t indicate them being romanticly linked.
By your description any close friends are ambiguously bi.
Edited by BlazingTrolls
But as you say yourself, they declare themselves friends. Meaning it does get defined. The Not-Love Interest is a trope for a reason.
There's nothing really indicating romantic or sexual interest between them. There is definitely love between them, but frankly, eros the only one not clearly demonstrated between them.
Allowing this to be defined by "some people believe" turns this into a straight up Audience Reaction and that's unacceptable. To use another mecha example, for a while most fans of Mobile Suit Gundam Wing were 100% positive the main cast was entirely gay. Yet you'll notice that there's no Ambiguously Bi, or Ambiguously Gay listing anywhere because fan interpretation of Ho Yay is, by definition, irrelevant.
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
It's a complicated thing I guess. In regards to the trope, I believe they fit it due to their strong relationship and how they treat each other. It fits the trope and they are on the main page of the Ambiguously Bi trope and have been for some time; years it looks like. So the general consensus has been they fit the trope. Perhaps the discussion should be brought up later in a week or so to readdress it but for now keep it and then come back to reconsider it.
That’s not how disscusions really work. If they don’t fit they don’t fit we are disscusing that at this moment. If they don’t fit we will also remove it from the main page.
If you can’t come up with a solid reason to keep it, then the general consensus of the disscusion is to remove it. People also used to think the earth was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, and bill cosby was nice ...didn’t make it correct.
Edited by BlazingTrolls
Right now I can't properly contribute to the discussion since I got a stomach bug but I'll try.
For The Not-Love Interest angle, the trope and the page suggests Suzaku and Lelouch don't quite fit that for each other. It's close but not quite which is likely why Ambiguously Bi fits so well. The Not-Love Interest for Lelouch is likely Nunnally while Suzaku doesn't have that.
I think it's more due to how the narration handles them; they treat Suzaku and Lelouch's relationship with the same importance and similar story beats as their respective love interests.
Again them being close indicates nothing. The narration at no point portrays them as any more than freinds who treat each other close as family. There is nothing to indicate any ambiguous attraction between the two.
Wait I'm personally confused as to how Ho Yay stuff being an indicator against a character being Ambiguously Bi? I know I'm late coming into this discussion but that makes absolutely no sense. You do know what being Bi means right?
Because Lelouch is shown to be close to both female and male characters in a similar manner through the series. He actually does date Shirley at one point for example and on his side of things, it is remarkably close to how his relationship is set up with Suzaku. Just Shirley has a clear romantic interest opposed to it just being there.
Not in a similar manor no. He has close freinds yes. But as no point is there a subtext of him even having interest in anything other than girls.
His relationship with Suzaku is like brothers or Hetrosexual Life Partners, but that doesn’t mean he’s bi. There’s nothing ambious in rtheir relationship, nothing can be interepreted in anything other than friendship. Again if being close was enough all close freinds would be bi.
A better example of ambiguously bi would be Evangelion anime, with Shinji who actually may be attracted to Kaworu(the manga is more explicit). It works because the nature of the relationship between the two does go into romantic.However with Lelouch and Suzaku there is nothing but a close freinds.
Edited by BlazingTrolls
You're not wrong, but at the same time there is a lot more to Lelouch's and Suzaku's relationship through the series.
In Akito the Exiled during the times he hallucinates their childhood and remembers things from his past all Lelouch does is beg Suzaku for water and for help. No one else. The only other time he mentions another name is during his full break down and that's Nunnally.
Not to mention after that full break down ends up sleeping on Suzaku's shoulder after he tries to kill him. Even then it's a weird thing to do even with close friends, especially male friends.
Like the whole point of the Ambiguously Bi part is that it's Ambiguously. It's not really there but it's there enough that it could be and I don't see the problem with that. Lelouch and Suzaku have that, they have moments where it is ambiguous just as much as Lelouch has scenes with Shirley or C.C. in the same sense.
Ambiguous doesn't mean it's rock solid and there, it just means that it could be and it's vague enough to be picked up on.
This is where the Code Geass Ho Yay page comes into play again. There are plenty of instances where Lelouch and Suzaku aren't just "like brothers" but where they act like more might be in the cards.
As the other poster brought up, part of Ambiguously Bi IS Ho Yay. That actually is a major reason why that trope applies.
Edited by LovePsychothefirst
Again Ho Yay is usually a matter of YMMV, which is why we tend not to use them on the main page.
Ambiguously Bi. It's not directly Ho Yay, but if there is enough Ho Yay there tends to be this trope or Ambiguously Gay.
It means that there is enough subtext between characters to fit this trope.
That would work if there was any ambiguity in their relationship. The issue is there isn’t. At no point is there any hint of romance or ambiguous nature between the two.
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