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Wyldchyld
topic
11:11:10 AM Oct 31st 2013
edited by 2.100.124.173
Mandatory Unretirement:

I've brought the examples here given that their use is being contested. The manga hasn't told us why they were asked to return or why they agreed to return, we certainly don't know if they were reluctant to return. We are left to guess. They were originally removed because we cannot trope guesses. That's what the WMG pages are for.

The trope has been reinstated for all four characters under the argument that since we don't know a better trope that applies, this will have to do. I don't consider that a valid reason. Not everything has to be troped and we certainly shouldn't be shoe-horning a trope to a situation just because we can't think of a better trope, or the story hasn't given us enough to information to choose a trope.

Not everything needs to be troped and some things are not trope-worthy. Whether or not a trope applies to what little we do know about the situation, I don't know off the top of my head. However, we should not be shoe-horning tropes just to act as some kind of stop-gap until a proper trope is found (if there is one at all).

On top of that, the full examples are spoilered which is considered highly undesirable by the Handling Spoilers guidelines and spoilering out the trope name itself is supposed to be avoided wherever possible on the grounds that if something needs to be covered to that extent, it probably shouldn't be mentioned on the page at all. Potholes that give away the spoilered content are also discouraged. So, even if the trope applied (which is only guesswork right now), the examples would need to be rewritten to meet the guidelines.


Examples removed:

  • Shinji Hirako: Mandatory Unretirement: After losing his postition due to becoming a Vizard, is reinstated as captain of the 5th division post time skip
  • Kensei Muguruma: Mandatory Unretirement: After losing his position, was reinstated as captain of the 9th Division post-timeskip.
  • Mashiro Kuna: Mandatory Unretirement: After losing her position in the Turn Back the Pendulum Arc, was reinstated as the super lieutenant of the 9th Division post time skip.
  • Rojuro "Rose" Otoribashi: Mandatory Unretirement: After being kicked out of the Gotei 13, was reinstated as captain of the 3rd Division post time skip
RogueLeader
07:08:15 PM Nov 4th 2013
Considering how long its been since their promotions in general (and the fact that we show the current pictures of at least two of the characters in question in their captain's uniform) it may be possible to simply remove the spoilers entirely as they may not actually be considered spoilers anymore. In which case, the information could simply be moved to their descriptions and avoid the trope argument entirely.
Wyldchyld
topic
04:33:59 PM May 1st 2013
edited by 70.33.253.43
To avoid an Edit War, I've taken the discussion here. I cannot see how Urahara is an example of an Unwitting Instigator of Doom.

This trope states the instigator plays a small and/or unlikely but crucial role in some horrible development. Urahara's role has never been small nor unlikely. There's a reason why he's called The Chessmaster alongside Aizen.

The trope says the instigator's role is to bumble and botch the hero's ability to get his task done solely for the sake of escalating the conflict and remains completely oblivious to what they've done or how they've done it. Urahara doesn't even come close to playing this role for the story.

The instigator may act out of malice or idiocy but it's usually idiocy. If they are helping the villain, it's either because they can only see one small part of the picture of they're being manipulated without their knowledge. Otherwise, they're just crashing through the situations or plans like some kind of walking disaster zone. Urahara is none of these things. Bleach keeps getting described as one long chess game between two chessmasters, Aizen and Urahara. Chessmasters know what they're doing, they're usually looking at the big picture, or at least a much bigger picture than the rest of the characters can see. If they do make mistakes, they quickly become aware of their mistakes and often will attempt to counter or correct their mistakes to stay on top of their game.

Regret for mistakes isn't relevant to the Unwitting Instigator trope - they're oblivious to their mistakes. The mistakes act as plot devices to mess with the ability of the hero to either achieve their goals or complete their tasks. Urahara's mistakes don't serve that purpose.

Most of Urahara's manipulations have been to put the heroes in a position where goals can be achieved. Urahara acknowledged his mistake with the Vizards but he didn't instigate the situation (he didn't set up the experiment, he didn't order the group to investigate and while he sent Hiyori, as soon as he realised, he defied Yamamoto to rush to her rescue). His attempt to fix what Aizen had instigated, however, did involve him making a mistake - but that's not this trope. Also, his mistake actually bought the Vizards life and time (full hollowfication would have killed them). Urahara even promised to find a way to reverse hollowfication. And the Vizards became allies of the hero and actively helped him in his quest to achieve his goal.

These aren't the actions or consequences of the Unwitting Instigator of Doom.

As to Mayuri, Urahara was in charge of that prison, he knew all about Mayuri and released him anyway. We don't know why, but we know he did it knowingly. Blaming Urahara for Mayuri's future actions also absolves Mayuri of responsibility for his own actions. For all his sociopathy, Mayuri's main role has also been to actually engage in activities that have helped the hero achieve his goals in the long run. That's not the Unwitting Instigator trope.

A negative consequence (what Mayuri did to the quincies) isn't automatically an example of this trope, otherwise the trope would be worded differently and other tropes that cover consequences wouldn't need to exist. We'd also be putting a lot more characters as examples (wrongly so).

Urahara is too self-aware and too focused on a much bigger picture than the main characters can see. He's too focused on getting the heroes to the end goals and has too much history of acknowledging his mistakes. Personally, I think trying to make him an example of this trope is shoe-horning at best. I do not see how Urahara can be both an unwitting instigator and a chessmaster at the same time.
Arha
06:46:07 PM May 1st 2013
Not to interrupt your argument, but he actually lumped it under Nice Job Breaking It, Hero this time.
Wyldchyld
09:04:41 AM May 2nd 2013
That I can agree with.
lebrel
topic
04:21:19 PM Mar 7th 2012
  • Cute Shotaro Boy: Far less benevolent than his appearance may suggest, however.

One, Cute Shotaro Boy has been renamed to Adorably Precocious Child. Two, this trope is highly misused and this example suggests that it does not apply.
Voided939
topic
09:12:12 PM Dec 16th 2011
The full colour picture of Ginjō in his Bankai state in Chapter 477 shows his sclera are red. This Troper is wondering if this means Hollow Ichigo's sclera are also red, seeing as the lines on Ichigo's mask are bright red in the manga and black in the anime.
MrShakar
topic
10:44:47 AM Oct 25th 2011
edited by MrShakar
Hello, episode 345 finally aniamted the Riruka-Giriko-Ginjou conversation. Would this picture work for Riruka? I think she just looks as good as the manga shot here:

If it gets picked, I'd like to leave the cropping/resizing tasks to someone with better skills than myself.

While they showed up in this episode, I would personally wait for Giriko and Tsukishima. The former will receive better shots in the next episodes, while the latter's cameos were filler.
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