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To be fair on the deletion end, a Spiritual Successor is defined as not being within the same world or made by the same creator. So either Mythology Gag can't apply, or these aren't actually a Spiritual Successor.

Well if they don't count as a Spiritual Successor, they surely count as being outright in the same series then. Since they have the same gameplay, are made by the same creator, and are filled with nods to each other. I guess Creator-Driven Successor would be more apt? Dark Souls and Elden Ring are even published by the same company.

Anyways I digress, that's not the main reason of the post.

I know it's not; I just wanted to weigh in on what I actually could. The rudeness is obviously an issue but it's also important to address if the edits themselves were valid or not. I'm also not finding the inflammatory edit reasons you alluded to. Most just say "misuse"

So if we're figuring that out, does a "series in a Creator-Driven Successor lineage" referencing each entry count as a Mythology Gag?

As for the rudeness, it was more in the PM's, but some of it seems very forceful.

"Extreme Misuse. Thodorix is not literally unkillable unless you trick him into fighting the land octopuses, and "hard boss can be defeated more easily by exploiting its environment" is not Puzzle Boss, it's Cheese Strategy."

Speaking of which can I post some of his PM's or is that not allowed?

Please don't post P Ms. Mods can read them if they need to.

Okay.

^x4 That edit reason at least doesn't seem rude to me. It's explaining what's wrong with the entry and what the example would fit instead. I might not go as far as calling the cut entries extreme misuse, but at worst that explanation reads as a bit blunt.

I would like to formally apologize for any rudeness; my patience had been worn thin from something entirely unrelated.

However, Smogmonster has twice now reverted my completely unremarkable edits (thereby preventing me from deleting them again). I first removed a couple of Puzzle Boss entries from various Elden Ring subpages for either describing a Cheese Strategy (Puzzle Boss requires there to be a single, required method of defeating them) or deing Damage-Sponge Boss misuse. The latter was specificall in regards to Rykard, lord of Blasphemy; i deleted the entry because Rykard is intended to be beaten entirely using the game's normal mechanics, just with a specific weapon, meaning it's not really a "puzzle" that requires you to think outside the box.

More broadly, I have also been trying to clean up Mythology Gag, Contrasting Sequel X and Expy misuse in regards to Elden Ring being a part of the unofficial "souls" series. as i understand it, the only current piece of Elden Ring media where Mythology Gag can be legitimately used is in regards to Elden Ring: Road to the Erdtree, an official comedy manga. Just today, Smogmonster unilaterally reverted all of the cleanup I had been doing and then presented an argument which essentially conformed to the incorrect information I was trying to purge. Again, i apologize for my bluntness and for being rude, but I believe was performing legitimate cleanup. If that's not how Mythology Gag works, I'll acquiesce the issue.

I was being a little harsh in the way I just deleted your edits (I should have consulted here, quite new on the site). I accept your apology. Before we add or remove anything, lets just wait for the a consensus on the Mythology Gag issue.

Additionally, for what it's worth, I have left Recurring Element and Creator Thumbprint examples untouched, as well as any Expy entries which have sufficient evidence (I.E. Preceptor Miriam being a Moveset Clone of the Crystal Sage from Dark Souls 3). I am not (intentionally) trying to be indignant or force my Opinion Myopia onto these pages, I am trying to perform actual cleanup.

^x2 Appreciated and duly noted.

Where are you getting the idea that "Puzzle Boss requires there to be a single, required method of defeating them"? The trope description doesn't say so, and there are plenty of examples that aren't so rigid.

The issue was that the example in question was along the lines of "if you exploit the game's level design by tricking the boss into aggroing these enemies, you can kill it super easily", which is obviously an example of Cheese Strategy rather than Puzzle Boss. If it had been something like "If you trick the boss into fighting this enemy, he'll instantly die" and it was clearly intentional on the developer's part, I'd have had no issue.

^Well, in that case, I think the operative question is, what evidence is there for that not being the intended way to defeat the boss? Speaking as an MMO guy, a lot of bosses have diverting aggro as a key component, and by reputation, From Software does tend to include specific tricks to defeat their bosses.

You also took issue with Rykard being a puzzle, despite the fact he's 100 hundred percent intended to beaten with the Serpent Hunter; he's a simple puzzle, but a puzzle nonetheless.

^^ The Land Octopuses used in the example are guarding a dungeon entrance a good 50 feet away from where the boss spawns, meaning you would have to deliberately abuse the fact that Great Wyrm Theodorix is a field boss not fought in a dedicated arena in order to take advantage of them. Plus, there are literally no bosses in the game where "tricking them into fighting other enemies" is the intended strategy for defeating them and always ends up being a quirk of the game's open world. (I should mention that smogmonster actually acquiesced on this one and changed the example to Easy Level Trick, which I think still implies developer intent but I'm more comfortable with).

The issue with Rykard, on the other hand, is that fighting him with the Serpent-Hunter doesn't make the fight any easier, doing it without only makes it harder. You still have to fight Rykard as if he were a normal boss (albeit with a gimmick) and he's still quite difficult regardless. And I'm sorry, but I simply cannot understand how an NPC telling the player to pick up the Serpent-Hunter and then picking up the Serpent-Hunter is meant to be a "puzzle" rather than a simple hint to avoid the player accidentally making the fight way harder for themselves.

Even so, my bigger issue is with the mass Mythology Gag revert and I'm willing to concede the point on the Rykard issue if my point isn't coming across.

"So if we're figuring that out, does a "series in a Creator-Driven Successor lineage" referencing each entry count as a Mythology Gag?" What's everyone's opinion on this so we can avoid a future Edit War?

Bumping. You may need to change the title or start a new thread with one that's more indicative of the discussion.