Euphinator poll (Code Geass Spoilers)

Season two was basically trying to recreate season 1 75% of the time. I can't recommend it very much.

In a lot of ways, VV kidnapping Nunnally directly crippled the plot more than the Euphinator incident did.

It's a pretty contrived occurrence as well.

You'd think the very first thing Lelouch would do when he has terrorists occupy the place his sister lives, turning the area into a huge target, is station a buttload of guards around her and tell them to watch her with their lives. Worst comes to worst, he could just geass them all to forget about her later to ward off suspicion.

And with that many guards, I somehow doubt that VV could sneak in and grab her, at least not all by himself. Sure, he got back up pretty quickly after that knife to the face from Cornelia, but soldiers with automatic weapons could probably keep him down long enough that he wouldn't be able to get within mind rape range. Then again, why he came alone in the first place really raises some questions.

In fact, considering that he had magical geass assassins, why did he himself have to show up and murder Marianne? I guess you could say he looks more inconspicuous as a kid, but his hair kind of wrecks that advantage, and on top of that, magic geass assassins. It doesn't matter how many guards are present when someone like Rolo is doing the job.

But all this alternative plot crap is getting tedious. Geass was pretty much driven by the drama lama from the Euphinator incident onwards (probably earlier than that). Arguing over the likelihood of minuscule aspects of characterization and the progression of an alternative history works to a point, but eventually you get into moments where it's just too hard to scrutinize what is going to occur. And Rule of Drama is going to be YMMV all over the place, so you're hardly going to find a consensus there...

...hence the OP's suggestion that we cast votes to get a clear idea of whether we thought it was a good idea or not. So yeah...I guess I'm trying to steer us back on topic or something like that...

The Euphemia thing is okay if you tell yourself he meant to do it.

Otherwise, yeah. It's one of the dumbest things ever and was done purely to generate shock value and extend the plot in the most contrived way possible.

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Realistic, maybe. Satisfying and dramatic? Hell no.

TVTropes Nuzlocke Thread. - Arceus Help Us All.

He half meant to do it, and he half didn't. Part of the reason he felt so guilty after the fact was that he knew that a part of him actually wanted to make Euphemia do something that would give him an excuse to continue his crusade against Britannia, and he was, as much as he hated to admit it, partly glad that everything happened the way it did. He was incredibly conflicted at that point, and, being Lelouch, his brain was desperately trying to come up with ideas that could get him out of the situation, so it's not a stretch to believe that he gave Euphemia a command that would have the desired effect. The contrived part was having the Power Incontinence happen at that exact moment, but that was just due to inadequate foreshadowing; if they'd shown him struggling to keep it under control a bit better, it would have been easier to swallow, though perhaps not as tragic.

edited 24th Oct '11 9:59:12 AM by tropetown

Another interpretation that I like is that the Geass is a Geass, a magical oaths that you are bound to honor no matter the price. When Lelouch accepts Euphelia's proposition, he has broken his Geass of King (by not acting like a king and not being alone), and thus his powers betrays him.

If they had done that, and you knew it was coming and could have been easily prevented, that would just make the idea that he accidentally (on the conscious level, at least) Geassed Euphie even more stupid.

You're saying Lelouch's Geass powers are a sentient entity even though this theory only applies to one event and is never alluded to once in the entire rest of the series. Even if that is the official explanation you're supposed to accept (and it obviously isn't), it's still just as much of an ass pull as "just because."

edited 24th Oct '11 10:42:49 AM by Dragonzordasaurus

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It's not sentient. It's a Geass, a magical pact which in the folklore are made with the Fair Folk (the kind who give people exactly what they asked for and exactly what they didn't want). Would you say that a pact with the devil is sentient if it backfires on you ? Plus, we already have an example of a Geass which ended as a curse because the one having it doesn't behave like a king. Of course, you can argue that this interpretation means that there is a lack of foreshadowing.

You mean if they'd shown him struggling to control his Geass over the course of a few episodes, and had proper foreshadowing to the Euphinator incident, the final moment where he lost control would have looked even more stupid and contrived? Not following the logic, here.

edited 24th Oct '11 11:45:59 AM by tropetown

I stopped watching after it.

I felt it was that stupid.

I recall being shocked by the whole Euphinator thing and kept thinking "Are you serious? Are you fraking serious!?"

That said, stupid and contrived things happen in real life too, so I just accepted it as part of the story.

Yeah, it didn't ruin the story for me; I just thought it could have been handled better. It was really the only part of the show I had a problem with; the rest of it was brilliant.

It would have been (even more) unbelievably stupid for him to not take C.C.'s warning seriously and still fuck around with joking about how he could apply his powers if something was that obviously wrong and had been going on for that long.

If establishing a concrete reason why Lelouch should be careful doesn't prevent the Euphinator arc, then all it does is further highlight how much of a reckless idiot he suddenly becomes at the end of R1.

edited 24th Oct '11 12:31:12 PM by Dragonzordasaurus

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Well, that's assuming that Lelouch would be thinking about losing control of his Geass at all, at that point; remember he was under quite a bit of emotional stress when the incident happened. When you're used to thinking your way out of problems, and there is a huge problem at hand, your mind will naturally focus on figuring a way out of it with the resources you have at hand. It wasn't him joking, more as it was him wishing; he didn't intend to Geass Euphemia, but he did want to be able to continue fighting against Britannia, so his mind was focused on ways he could end up doing that. Emotional stress doesn't exactly make you less intelligent; it only makes you more single-minded. At that point, the goal was the first thing on his mind, and Lelouch was like a newly caged animal, trying desperately to think of a way to escape the trap his sister had sprung upon him, though with the best of intentions.

I agree with the statement that he shouldn't have lost control of his Geass before that point; it would have lessened the impact that the incident had on the story. However, showing him struggling to maintain control, but still managing to hold on to it in the end, is different from having him lose control repeatedly, and having him disregard the fact that he needed to be careful with his Geass. The first is a good buildup to a tragic incident, the second is an Idiot Ball moment.

...Am I allowed to think of it as a deeply tragic and dramatic set of scenes, as was intended?

Sentient Geass energy: Y'know, I had something similar to but nastier than that in a fic I wrote once...

See, the only problem was...

I cackled like a madman as Euphemia shot everything up. I don't know why, but the sheer left-fieldness of the order, Euphy's facial expression, and the reactions of the Britannian military made the scene very, very funny.

Additionally, R2 wasn't that bad. Code Geass didn't really suffer that much from being Screwed by the Network.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Miniputts.

Yes: you'll hear no judgements from me, I'm one of the few people who actually liked R2. Euphinator was both of those things, but it could have definitely been handled better.

I cackled like a madman as Euphemia shot everything up. I don't know why, but the sheer left-fieldness of the order, Euphy's facial expression, and the reactions of the Britannian military made the scene very, very funny.

Everything wrong with the whole affair is cited on the Code Geass Narm page for a reason.

The following video accurately summarizes my thoughts on the Euphinator incident:

And that's my completely honest opinion.

edited 25th Oct '11 6:36:36 AM by Dragonzordasaurus

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Thread Hop!

I have not ever seen the Euphinator incident. Well. okay, I watched some brief clips of it on Youtube, but never got to the actually Euphinating part, just her falling under Geass.

I'm still not really interested, but that video was hilarious.

I will say this though. It's one of those moments from which numerous Alternate Universes could easily spring forth. That alone is interesting.

edited 25th Oct '11 5:18:54 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!

I was hoping SRWZ2 would avoid it, but newp.

I don't see the problem with it. We saw Lelouch's Geass almost go incontinent earlier in the episode, so there was foreshadowing. Yes, it going out of control at that exact moment was an enormous piece of bad luck, but the whole series began with an extreme moment of good luck (namely, Lelouch stumbling across C.C.)

When a random, unlikely event resolves the plot of a story, it's a Deus ex Machina or Diabolus ex Machina, and is usually bad storytelling. However, if random, unlikely events occur in the middle of a story, then I'd say they're perfectly acceptable storytelling devices, so long as they're used sparingly. Personally I like it when some of the major turning points in a story are caused by luck; it adds an element of unpredictability to the equation.

The Euphinator thing is a Diabolus ex Machina because it ruined what would have been the ending of the series. Lelouch realized not all Britannians are inherently evil and he didn't need to carry some personal vendetta against them. He was about to fulfill his dream of a peaceful Nippon where Nunnally would be safe. But then Contrived Coincidence intervened, drove everything to hell in a matter of seconds, and caused the entire second season to happen.

so ha.

edited 27th Oct '11 2:40:51 AM by Dragonzordasaurus

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Even if Euphemia carried out her plans, the series would be far from ending. IT would have a different development, but it is not like Britannia oppression would suddenly halt nor like they would stop expanding. Furthermore, Leulouch hadn't found about his mother yet.

Also, I believe you vastly misunderstand what are Lulu's objectives and believes. At no point of the series he thought "Britannians are inherently evil". This is just ludricous, not only for himself, a Britannian, but also Nunnaly and Euphy. And, of course, he always knew Euphemia is not evil. What he didn't believe is her methods would accomplish anything.

That would probably have been an interesting juncture actually: Euphemia works with Lelouch and Suzaku and eventually must decide whether she can do anything to stop the Britannian oppression and make up for the wrongs done by the invasion.

It would have been interesting to see Lelouch perhaps leaning more to Euphemia and Suzaku's way of changing the world too.