how would a tiger I tank stand against the M1 abrams

Then there's also the fact ground vehicles of any kind are inherently grounded by the ground. The lightning bolt travels through the outer armor and grounds itself into the terrain. The only danger lightning has to an Abrams is an unlucky crewman on an open hatch. And all hatches are usually closed in tank on tank combat.

You could pit a Bradley against a Tiger and the Bradley would win.

And remember, the Abrams is very quiet for an MBT, due to the use of the turbine engine.

Note that a Tiger has verticel armor on the turret and hull - a basic 120mm smoothbore roudn out of an M1 will chew right through that. Abrams has sloped armor, and it's the Chobham stuff that tends to yawn at even modern anti-tank munitions.

The Tiger's have what, RHA for armor?

One issue with this whole fight is even if the Abrams runs out of ammo, it is so much faster than WWII tanks that it can disengage at will.

^ It's been stated that the Tiger I can immobilize the Abrams, so.

And that's the best it can do.

^ What would happen if it hit the gun? (Or even more unlikely, inside the barrel)

Or the hatch?

How would it even hit the hatch?

Ricochet!

Through an incredibly contrived set of coincedences, maybe?

I suspect the chances of any of that are so close to zero as to be inconsequential.

@Edmania: A firepower kill would result. The main gun would likely be rendered unusable but the crew will be fine.

Contrary to cartoon physics if an 88mm was on a trajectory to go into the muzzle of the Abrams' 120mm gun it would drop in the barrel, connect and detonate somewhere long before reaching the crew. Thus the result is the same, the gun's likely unusable but the crew is fine.

@Cygan: Define a hatch hit. Using the 88mm in an indirect arc over extreme distances? I think hits have actually occurred against Abrams that way before. (Though not 88mm munitions of course) The hull is likely to survive but if the hatch is open you probably have a man down as far as crew is concerned.

The probability of a round flying through an open hatch and detonating inside the turret is so ridiculously low that it might as well never happen.

edited 10th Nov '10 8:26:44 PM by MajorTom

If we are talking about an ambush situation Do your Tiger's have the option of attacking the HETSs or refuelers? IIRC the M1 Abrams is quite the fuel hog.

If the tiger got a very, very lucky shot at the rear of the Abrams it may disable it. But they'd only get one shot. If they didn't kill the Abrams with that first shot, the tiger would be a pile of scrap metal and burning, screaming crew.

Not even screaming.

DU rounds do nasty things to a tank when they pass through it. Turrets occasionally end up flying off the tank hull when there's an internal ammo explosion.

The resulting burials for the crew remains will definitely be closed casket.

Well, there would be screaming until the ammo detonated unless they got hit, if they were unlucky (say, if it was a hit on the side-rear of the tank the driver may get some screaming time in). Most likely though, you're right, no screaming. Just charred Ludicrous Gibs.

^^ That reminds me of some of the pictures from Gulf War I. There were a number of pictures (It was from like the Time Pictures of the Year album version 1991 or 1992) showing charred and burning Iraqi tanks. A couple of which had the basically burned to a fine crisp bodies still in them as if the crew were trying to escape as the tank was brewing up.

What contemporary machines do stand up to the Abrams that are not fielded by nations supremely unlikely to be in the American firing line (i.e. the British Challenger series, the German Leopard series)? Exported, downgraded crap fielded by Iraq notwithstanding, which of the Russian T-series would have been the Abrams' biggest threat in World War III?

^^ That reminds me of some of the pictures from Gulf War I. There were a number of pictures (It was from like the Time Pictures of the Year album version 1991 or 1992) showing charred and burning Iraqi tanks. A couple of which had the basically burned to a fine crisp bodies still in them as if the crew were trying to escape as the tank was brewing up.

That's exactly where I thought of it from.

edited 14th Nov '10 12:14:32 PM by Lessinath

^^ There is no tank that can hope to take on an Abrams 1 to 1 and win. All the closest candidates are in friendly nations.

The T-90 is next best thing beyond that, but it's little more than a modernized T-72 which are easy fodder for Abrams crews.

Then as was said in the Military Thread, you have to worry about US air superiority. Abrams tanks are never alone or by themselves as a force. They are always covered either from the air, or by IFVs and attached infantry and often have a direct line to local artillery/MLRS firebases in the combat zone.

So... what would the Red Baron be like in an F-18?

Probably pretty good, given the training. The skills that made a fighter ace in World War I mostly still hold — situational awareness, observation, the ability to keep track of a lot of things mentally, and the ability to analyze what your opponent is thinking and take advantage of their habits and likely training/experience. Tactics, innovation.

Of course, he'd have a lot to learn.

Red Barron + modern training + F18 is a scary concept.

Red Barron + modern training + F18 is a scary concept

Anyway, If attacking the supply lines aren't a option, how about a Autopilot? It would make Death of a Thousand Cuts more viable.

tingly, also are you a history buff? I always imagined a A-10 would be more his speed.

Anyway, If attacking the supply lines aren't a option, how about a Autopilot? It would make Death Of A Thousand Cuts more viable.

Why yes, I happen to be into history quite a bit. Also, I didn't think of that, Red Barron in an A10 is even more frightening !!

Also, I know that if I had to go up against the us I would use overwhelming numbers to negate their technological, air and armored superiority. You know those beautiful anti-missile systems? Fire three thousand missiles at the USS Nimitz and I'll guarantee some will get through. Maybe this would also work with very large numbers of tiger 1s against the M1 Abrams.

edited 14th Nov '10 10:33:30 PM by Lessinath

The A-10, Nearly impossible to shoot down that. Not great for dogfighting though I'd think, looks very.... sturdy.

edited 14th Nov '10 10:48:03 PM by Lanceleoghauni