Shin Megami Tensei Series

Something that needs to be mentioned is that the Kunitsu's rage in King Abaddon specifically points out the Amatsu worked with the Hebraic Gods to persecute and kill them. It also makes their later sealing by the Kunitsu working with the same Hebrew Gods in II Laser-Guided Karma, thought with the unfortunate fact that the Angels proceeded to turn on them as well.

So even the Shinto Gods are not above being douchebags. And Masakado Fusion Dance with Past!Flynn is just as brutal as Hikaru munching down on Walter.

Edit: Also YHVH doesn't have ally Gods. He has Angels that are Gods as his minions.

Even SJ had the Yatagarasu as "Angels" guarding one of the Cosmic eggs on Chaos.

edited 8th Feb '16 5:49:29 PM by OmegaRadiance

I have no issue with it myself.

Is because, in most modern Religious Fiction God Is Evil is the rule, becuase allow the heroes to be edgy and be a mysantropic asshole as well as the ultimate embodiment of Humanism, also is easier make Existencialism with that type of plot (Søren Kierkegaard, almost every one forgot about Christian existencialism).

And more SMT relevant. This is a franchise who constantly talk about how this is your choice and talk, and talk about how Grey and Grey is the series, but seriously, why even bother if YHWH is a Complete Monster guilty of almost bad things in the series, Lucifer shift his morality time to time (sometimes good, sometimes amiguous, sometimes a jerk -but not as jerk as Law) and Neutrality is presented as the only moral path ever (sure, is bittersweet, but given who the others ending are worse). Why? This stop the moral debate.

Look the page itself (?).

edited 8th Feb '16 6:33:09 PM by KazuyaProta

You say this like there aren't plenty of other gods that are evil.

I'm going to need to ask for a source supporting that claim.

edited 8th Feb '16 6:12:51 PM by dragonfire5000

What Dragonfire said.

That's like, Jrpg cliches 101.

Outside of JRP Gs it doesn't seem all that common. i can't think of any mainstream western works that use it.

Hmm. maybe I really am overreacting to how often it's used.

That being said, it does need to be toned down in JRPG's a little. That card gets played a bit too often to the point where it's predictable.

No, we're asking you to back up the claim here.

Because it looks like passing your unsubstantiated opinion as a fact of modern works.

If that's all you play, it's easy to get that type of opinion.

Well, there are also a few comic books that have that angle. That might play a role.

Garth Ennis thinks God Is Evil...or just hates religion.

Maybe I am just sampling too much of that kind of stuff. Though it's not like mythology doesn't have it's occasionally Jerkass Gods anyway.

The Greek Pantheon is made up of 90% assholes.

To be fair SMT did it before other games did.

They were steeling from my Shen Megumi Tensays!

To be frank, the permutation of God Is Evil in Japanese fiction has long made me kind of uncomfortable. Because, y'know, Japan persecuted Christians. Albeit because the Christians were selling slaves and executing people who didn't convert...

This is true.

Still though, it'd be nice if they surprised us on that front. The idea of other characters running the Law and Chaos factions sounds good.

The Japanese aren't monotheistic, so the willingness to portray God as evil in Japanese works is understandale. Most Americans would have a serious problem with that.

There are Japanese people who are Christian. They aren't a majority though and typically they're known to portray Jesus Was Way Cool even when God Is Evil.

Though Japan kind of has a... thing about historical revisionism and victim blaming from what I understand. To this day many school textbooks there basically say "China and America brought it on themselves!"

They've turned it into an art form. I think Gatchaman Crowd Insight is one of the few anime series that outright mentions it and doesn't try to make Japan the victims, even if it doesn't into details and instead portrays them as giving into the Groupthink mentality, which is not untrue.

edited 8th Feb '16 7:33:37 PM by OmegaRadiance

Hence why applying it to Christianity/Abrahamic faiths makes me uncomfortable.

So it's just about Japan doing it?

Japanese media seem to do it more often than anyone, which makes me think it's one of those iffy attitudes toward history described above.

I see.

Then again, historical revisionism and victim blaming is hardly a Japan-only problem. But that discussion is probably better suited for the On-Topic Conversations forum.

I will admit that I probably am not as disturbed by how frequently God Is Evil shows up in Japanese media as some others here are because I'm not a Christian. I also kind of like how Shin Megami Tensei is not really all that discriminatory when it comes to portraying gods as assholes. Yes, even the Amatsu have their asshole moments, as OmegaRadiance pointed out earlier. Hey, if you're going to portray one pantheon as a bunch of jerks, might as well target all of them.

Still, I'm glad they haven't gone for the stereotypes we see in Western media such as underworld gods like Hades and Anubis always being evil (and no, I'm not counting Pluto as an example of Everybody Hates Hades, since it's clear that it isn't really the deity in question, even if the people who named it were following the spirit of the trope).

Sukuna-Hikona on his boat.

The problem is who Neutral is the only way, and all the debates between the characters feel pointless, And not in the artistic way. What happens if you like the idea of a world of Law? You're following the worst entity of the multiverse. What Moral debate?

The fact who the real debate about Nocturne is "Freedom or TDE?, what reasons? Ah, the bait. YHWH is evil" explain it all.

edited 8th Feb '16 7:50:13 PM by KazuyaProta