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Oh right.

I've been watching this topic. As you know, I'm not good with forums, but I should be okay for being on the committee. I was waiting for an issue to actually come up.

Video Game Census. Please contribute.

Alright, that's 4/5.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I can do it.

5/6. Even better.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Does anyone have any objections to us starting with the current 5 and perhaps adding two more in the near future? I would imagine that we won't even be having a proper vote for quite some time.

edited 8th Jan '10 7:59:54 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Right, so, the crowner is 11-0 and there have been no objections to my committee nominees in the past three weeks, so I'm just going to go ahead and make the thread.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Little late, but:

New Faw.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

God-damn-it I'm failing in being a good member of the team and posting. HOLIDAYS!!! GHA!!!

...in other news, here's my 2c.

Section IV: I would say that we up them to full villain status and make them an actual threat to the team. The problem is that I'm still getting confused as to what they actually want to do, what is their goal, so...

Trope-Tan: I'd say rewrite her, maybe. If she isn't working, remove her. EDIT: In the plot it says "Eddie is infected and makes Trope-tan as a backup copy of the Database". Maybe it would be easier if instead of a person, she was a program or something.

Eighth Wall: I thought I was following it... somehow... OK, so it was a bit confusing. Maybe we should make it more simple? I dunno. *ghaa*

Season 1: Plot... I'd argue that if possible, we should make it like Ironeye said, start off with the plot right off the bat, have someone trying to get rid of TV Tropes or something to that degree.

Wikipedia: I always thought of Wikipedia as being somewhat of another group like TV Tropes, trying to help out in fixing everything... Maybe they operate in a different area of the country, or overseas? Another idea is that they're more focused on researching and documenting the fictites, not capturing and sending them back.

Ending: Ends with the fourth wall being fixed? *shrugs*

edited 13th Jan '10 7:55:56 PM by CorruptDropbear

Help! I'm stuck in these tabs!

I'm back now. Give me a moment to catch up on everything.

...Doy, now I have to update my character! I'll do that... sometime...

They assed first. I am only retaliating in an ass way. -The Dead Man's Life

I haven't checked in here in the past few days because of exams (otherwise, I was checking! Just not posting!), and now that it's the weekend, I figured that I should do some work.

So I wrote Hikari a shiny new entry for the holding bin! I kept the other stuff, since I'm not sure whether it's necessary. Better safe than sorry! ^_^

And, umm, sorry for not updating for... ever. :P Still,I was able to mature emotionally, so I think my understanding of wangsty teenagers has increased, enabling me to write a better Hikari. ^_^

(Ironically, in the same time, my worldview has actually brightened. I can actually say that I am an idealist now, intead of just wishing that I could be but being unable to support such an obvious lie. Make of that what you will after you've read the new entry.... 0_0)

-*whooooooosh* Nin nin! [1]◊

Funny, that—I was just talking the other night about making the demon that final villain of the story, forcing the other characters to fight Hikari...

Edit: And let it be noted: even I have not written an ending for a character as dark and depressing as the one Hikari wrote...at least not for TV Tropes The TV Show.

edited 23rd Jan '10 3:21:32 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I like this new development. It is deliciously tragic.

Dunno if it fits our intended tone for the series, though, so... yeah.

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...

Anyone want to take bets on how soon Big Dawg will veto it?

Note the lack of "if".

edited 23rd Jan '10 4:54:51 AM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Really? I kinda hope it stays. Providing the other characters' endings aren't quite so dark. It's something different.

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Well, there will be a ripple effect. For one thing, a major factor in Hikari losing his idealism is Ironeye trying to "break" him, making a big part of it Ironeye's fault. He, of course, would blame himself for it and try to clean things up, and since at this point in the story he tries to be Necessarily Evil so that the others don't have to, that'd involve him trying to kill Hikari. If he doesn't succeed, well, he failed at protecting the others from having to make the hard choices. If he does succeed, he just killed his friend. Considering the relative power levels of the characters involved, it is likely that Ironeye would get seriously injured either way, and wouldn't want to deal with his failure. Thus, there'd be a scene where he has to convince Kara to let him die like he should have died back in LA. Whichever choice she makes is going to make her feel like crap. And don't even get me started on how bad this is going to be for Jinxed...

Yes, I've thought about this a lot in the past few hours. Unless we move this to perhaps 2/3 of the way through the story, we're not even going to get Earn Your Happy Ending. Only if we spin things properly would we be able to salvage a Bittersweet Ending from what would likely be a Downer Ending.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Hmmm... perhaps if we made it the penultimate arc, or even the antepenultimate arc?

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Well, Hikari certainly doesn't get to unilaterally change the consensus-derived tone of the show via his personal character arc.

Did we get a consensus on that? I'm still in favour of a variety of moods, some very bleak, with Earn Your Happy Ending being the ultimate outcome.

I thought it was a given that some characters' arcs were going to have Downer Endings. "And they all lived happily ever after" endings are unrealistic and often twee.

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What we had earlier was (with an exception here or there for particularly minor characters) endings that were generally in of the Bittersweet variety, though several were open to interpretation as either Happy or Downer depending on how certain events were interpreted. The general rule was:

• If the character's subplot was more or less finished by the season before the character's final appearance, the character got to live Happily Ever After because even though their position had nowhere to go but down, things didn't get any worse.
• But, if the character's still had unresolved issues in the final season of appearance (typically the final season), then the character got a Bittersweet Ending because his/her life didn't get any better even though there was a clear way it could have (either the character never achieved it, or the good thing was lost in the finale)

Mind you, these were only general trends. Anyway, the balance was such that things were skewed towards a Bittersweet Ending for the finale precisely because the characters who got Happy endings tended to not have climactic scenes for their subplots—at least none anywhere near the finale. I found this amusing, because for all of the emphasis on Earn Your Happy Ending in the votes, over half of the characters rather explicitly didn't go there.

Anyway, the problem with giving someone a Downer Ending is the ripple effect. There are two ways we can (reasonably easily) pull off a heroic main character turning evil and getting killed by the team without sending the story towards a Downer Ending:

• They were The Mole and totally had it coming
• The turn happened early enough that it could be seen as the middle of the character's story instead of the direct setup for the ending. It works if we can get the audience to think of the character as a villain instead of as someone who needs to be saved.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Or, (don't know how good an idea this is, but throwing it up there as a suggestion):

• Spend the following arc focusing on the deceased character's backstory and the people who mattered most to him in his life, possibly even bringing back the character briefly (in the form of a hologram, a ghost, even old home video footage - could be anything, really) in order to give the audience closure.

A permanent Face–Heel Turn is a risky thing to attempt. If it doesn't convince the viewers it's a massive Wall Banger, but if we can pull it off, it could make for some of the most moving drama and complex moral scenarios we could put on the show.

If everyone's against it, then I guess I can understand. I just think it's a good idea, it's something different, and at the very least it deserves proper consideration.

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I'm afraid that that could backfire horribly, considering that in his backstory, he's a pretty good guy. He is quite clearly the most heroic character on the original cast, and unless you want to make the case that he got what he deserved for making a deal with the devil  ^*

, the entire thing would be the show hammering in Nice Job Breaking It, Hero for Ironeye. It be like well, if you didn't think Ironeye did something bad before, let's devote an arc to reminding you just how nice this kid was before Ironeye got to him.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Then perhaps an arc devoted to giving Ironeye redemption?

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With Ironeye, we've (and I do mean "we", not just me) been trying not to set things up so that he is redeemed and it's all good again. His ending is supposed to be that he has to live with himself and all of the things he's done—whether this is mercy or punishment is left up to the viewer. He's the sort of character where Happily Ever After would be a cop-out, and Redemption Equals Death is just avoiding the entire point of his story; he's supposed to be The Atoner for the rest of his life.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.