Why all the Karen Traviss hate?

You want to know something funny? I've read Luke Skywalker And The Shadows Of Mindor. You have an old clone trooper who is childish naive, obeys orders like a robot, and believes everything he hears without question. Fenn Shysa, Mandalore himself at the time, met this old C.T. and he found the dude rather creepy and weird. It just shows that CT's and Mandalorians are not necessarily friends!

Matthew Stover gave what I believe is a more balanced view of the Mandalorians, showing the worst (Mandos as mercenary scum), the best (Fenn Shysa as The Ace and a strong sense of morality), and between the two areas in that book. It certainly didn't hurt that Han Solo referred to them as MESFA Cs (Masters of Every Single Flippin' Aspect of Combat) and that he really hated those guys!

I would have to conclude that M.S. didn't like K.T.'s approach to the clone troopers and Mandalorians, and was simply showing us all how it should have been done!

The Mandalorians' sueishness has been picked apart since Karen Traviss left. They have, however, been replaced as the most Mary Sue race.

By the Hapans. Seriously, a race of ridiculously isolationist anti-Jedi assholes who are universally beautiful and despite being isolated from the Galaxy, they somehow have more influence over the galactic government than many Core Worlds. For the longest time, they were led by Isolder, who was basically Space!Fabio, and he very nearly snagged Leia simply by appearing.

And holy shit, the number of books where things are centered on Hapes. I'm sick of Hapes. The Hapes Consortium can go die.

Oh, but you're forgetting the best part! The Hapans are a Lady Land, and most likely based off of the Amazons described in Ancient Greek Mythology. As one thread eloquently pointed out, you cannot portray a L.L. without going into Unfortunate Implications. Sure, the Hapans have men in their society, but the gender roles are reversed, which will create dissonance for readers for a variety of reasons. We can thank Dave Wolverton for introducing the Hapans into Star Wars!

I actually didn't like how Matthew Stover portrayed the Mandalorians. In the Shadows of Mindor, the Mandalorians were once again portrayed as more powerful than they should be. I mean, don't get me wrong, they're great warriors but taking over a planet with 3 billion people? With only - what? - a couple thousand of them? That, and there's a scene later in the story when Lando convinces them to help the New Republic take Mindor from the Empire and as soon as they landed on the planet, the Imperial forces immediately turn tail and run. If Cornal/Shadowspawn's troops were so devoted to him, then why didn't they stand their ground and die for him? And no, the fact that they're fighting againt Mandalorians isn't a good excuse. I mean, they weren't just ameteurs; there were people that were clearly Clone Wars veterans serving in Cronal's army.

Anywho, it's been a long time, maybe I've forgotten some details from the book, but I think some writers, not just Karen Traviss, go too far in displaying Mandalorian military strength.

edited 17th Apr '12 2:59:45 PM by Stevron

Well, it is strongly implied in Luke Skywalker And The Shadows Of Mindor that the whole story between the beginning scene and ending scene is a dramatization. When you make a movie out of something, you tend to make it dramatic, which means that it won't necessarily match what really happened. So it's not out of the question that the Mandalorians' military strength was exaggerated for dramatic emphasis, because that's how people see the Mandalorians. Fridge Brilliance right there, folks!

Glasslands was an atrocity to the Halo novels IMO, It's a shame she's slated to write a few more books for the franchise, BTW, I'm a person who thinks what Halsey did was understandable and reasonable at the time (SPARTAN II program was done in responce to the growing Insurrection), though it would be extremely un ethical in most other situations. Karen Travis is basically Mat Ward for Star Wars, Halo, And GOW. I only wish 343 industries would rehire Eric Nylund to write more books.

Honestly, my favorite Boba Fett series was the Bounty Hunter Wars, as it showed him as pretty much an absolute scumbag. A Scumbag with some ethics, but still a scumbag in the end.

What I don't like about Traviss is that she refuses to read up on the universe she's writing for. Going in blind is a bad idea if you are going to be using characters that have been doing stuff in fiction for like...what, 30 years?

To take an example, let's use Mara Jade. Zahn (who created her) didn't even get asked if it might be a good idea if she died off. He got the news when the book hit the shelves. That would really annoy me if I was in his shoes. It's stuff like this that really push me away from the Star Wars novels.

There was one part I did like with Daala. It's before she becomes chief of state (Long before) that she's talking to someone (I Can't remember exactly who) and admits she screwed up in an epic fashion, and that no matter what she does, she always screws up so she's quitting while she's ahead.

Of course then she goes and becomes chief of state but that's another matter! (and different author I think).

Now, Traviss' Gears Of War novels are actually interesting, as she doesn't make the COG out to be the absolute best thing ever, they're just the only thing that's actually surviving against the Locoust. And I did like how she showed that the COG was breaking down internally as everything keeps going to hell.

edited 24th Mar '13 2:46:32 AM by MattII

I dunno if reviving a 5-6 month old topic is a bad, stupid, or suicidal thing, but I still feel I should mention the intro to Halo 4.

Elaborate please?

I think he's referring to this.

Halsey still comes across better in Halo 4 than Traviss's novels fanfics.

edited 15th Jan '13 12:14:23 PM by doineedaname

Ah. Yes. Not that that is difficult.

Hey, maybe that causes her to quit...rewriting her characterization did the job for Star Wars after all.

edited 15th Jan '13 12:35:45 PM by 3of4

She sounds like a Well-Intentioned Extremist stating I Did What I Had to Do. Consider what the intro shows, she obviously couldn't sit there and do nothing!

What is it with Karen Traviss and clones anyway? Is it like a fetish or something?

She just really hates the Jedi and anyone who likes them, and supports genocide against them.

Some people claim she was actually fired instead of quitting since her old bosses refuse to comment on why she left.

Honestly, I think Halo 4 is treating Halsey much better than Traviss did. The bad is that her remorse for creating the SPARTAN-IIs isn't apparent, and that her For Science! urges appear stronger. But the good is that that she's shown to be a complex character, that she genuinely loves John-117 and commends Thorne's politeness, and that she's very smart and capable of coming out on top quickly. She's not easily placed as "evil" and the lead writer even mentioned going back and changing her responses at one point because they made her motivation too clear. On the other hand, he also apologized in that same post for feeling sorry for her, going out of his way to call her a monster. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that shows Traviss's influence or not.

edited 15th Mar '13 7:27:48 PM by Tuckerscreator

Traviss mine as well just write for Warhammer 40000, the book will be called, "Ultramarines are awesome, and make everyone else look bad."

Traviss Mandalorians vs Wards Ultramarines. The War of the Sue's.

''Nearly all of the larger multiple-author series has a Karen Traviss though. Compare MTG and Warhammer 40k.

These question we have to ask here is, why, if most if not all of the fanbase hates these writers, do they still get hired?''

Does this means Bendis can be considered the Karen Traviss of Marvel?

No, because Bendis actually sometimes creates quality work

It might have to do with the publisher and contracts. Like, with the Bantam era of the old Star Wars EU, I wondered what would possess them to have Kevin J. Anderson and Barbara Hambly write so many books, since both are hacks. I asked the same when Del Rey kept giving writing assignments to Troy Denning, Karen Traviss, and Christie Golden. Golden still writes Star Wars, despite being shit at it. It's really must be a contract thing. Traviss only stopped writing Star Wars due to creative differences. I don't think her explosive unpopularity was ever a factor.

I also think the publishers want to give work to authors they know. It's why Star Wars has plenty of novels by James Luceno, who is like their go-to for Prequel era stuff. They used to give various authors one-off books to write, but then you'd have oddballs like The Crystal Star and Rogue Planet.

edited 4th Jan '16 9:59:15 PM by CrimsonZephyr

A lot of it is "is this person able to turn something reasonably acceptable on time?" If an author (or artist) is on time and okay, they can keep getting work even if their quality isn't high. It also helps if they are able to get along with the editor/publisher/other creatives, because then they'll be recommended around.

Over in the comic book field, there are creators who've had thirty-year careers that are inexplicable to the fans because they do the job on time and get along with the publisher, while high quality people take too long or have poor tempers and have little work in the mainstream as a result.

Well, I mean, that's true, but Karen Traviss was such an oddball, regardless. Her views on war, soldiery, and the relationship between the military and civilians are borderline fascist, and she has this Colonel Kilgore-like obsession with it, where frothing-at-the-mouth militarists are unabashedly heroic and everyone else — anti-war protesters, politicians, civilians, businessmen, etc. are evil, stupid, corrupt, and unworthy of kissing the boots of military men. Not only is her work anathema to the messages of Star Wars, her corpus should be avoided by anyone with a functioning brain. Then there's her irrational hatred of the Jedi, and her one-dimensional, blinkered love of everything Mandalorian...You get the idea.

I mean, Traviss might get her work done on time, but surely there was an alternative to an insane author whose writing sounds like she's cribbing right-wing militia agitprop.

edited 5th Jan '16 8:05:41 PM by CrimsonZephyr

I read Karen Traviss' Sacrifice in 4 hours at a Barnes and Noble. I just skipped all the Boba parts and got home by dinner. It was terrible.

All of Legacy of the Force was terrible. Karen Traviss and Troy Denning working on the same series? Yuck.

I liked bits of it like Tahiri and Jacen's relationship.

Although Fate of the Jedi heavily implied that they were sleeping together which turns Jacen into more of a sleazebag. Not that there weren't bits in Legacy of the Force that made you wonder.

edited 8th Jan '16 5:39:23 PM by MadSkillz