Neon Genesis Evangelion

Obligatory: Mari is a Time Lord./

Unit-08 and the Curse of Eva are her TARDIS and Companion, respectively. Why Unit-08? It's the only Evangelion to survive Mari's piloting skills.

edited 19th Nov '14 9:47:54 PM by TheAirman

@Crinias: The link doesn't work for me. You sure that's the right format?

On another note, in the same /a/ thread where the images were found I just found this◊ analysis of one potential interpretation of the Rebuild movies' numbering scheme. It's... kinda unsettling. Basically, the analyst thinks that the Rebuild movies are Anno's way of retaliating against the Misaimed Fandom that plagued the original series — 1.0 is "NGE as it was shown", 2.0 is "NGE as the fans (mis)interpreted it", and 3.0 is "NGE as Anno intended it to be interpreted", so in this way, instead of the last one being numbered "4.0", it's "3.0 + 1.0" to indicate that it will be "NGE as it was shown and as Anno intended it to be interpreted".

edited 19th Nov '14 11:29:37 PM by MarqFJA

I must say, if that turns out to be true, then that really doesn't paint a very good picture of Anno in my eyes. It's basically him deliberately taking this series down a darker and more depressing path just to spite the audience because they don't see the characters and setting exactly the way he sees it.

Not to mention that I highly doubt that the characters were liked in 2.22 because they were lighter and softer. To me at least, I enjoyed them more because I saw them develop, gain character arcs, and overall become much more relatable. Plus, the ending wasn't completely triumphant, but instead rather ambiguous in terms of morality. Yes, while Shinji did nearly trigger TI, he was finally starting to fight for what he believes in, and affirmed Rei's status as her own person worth giving a rip about.

Should the analyst be correct, 3.33 just does away with all this because Anno apparently doesn't like seeing this sort of stuff be enjoyed by the audience since "that's not Eva". To him, Eva is all about characters suffering, the themes and symbolism, and the message that he thinks we don't understand. Subtlety in not in his vocabulary.

That comes across to me as being incredibly shallow, and being unable to accept that your work is going to be viewed in different lights by your viewers. Alternate Character Interpretation and Death of the Author do exist after all. To deny any and all views except your own just screams of George Lucas.

Not to mention that if you are indeed unable to properly communicate how the viewer should feel about your characters and situations, causing them to look at them in an apparently misguided fashion, then you are failing as a storyteller.

Sorry if I come across as being rather frustrated there. It's just that, should the analyst be right, I'm not exactly all that approving of Anno's choices here (unlike Eva Geeks, who always think he's in the right).

Personally, my view of of the direction 3.33 took is less that, and more of him going for a formal deconstructive path, ala Metal Gear Solid 2.

edited 20th Nov '14 2:55:38 AM by LDragon2

It's also incredibly hypocritical, when you consider his adherence to the Shrug of God and intentional use of Alternate Character Interpretation. Why would someone who accepts only their own viewpoint about their work make their viewpoint the most unclear of all?

edited 20th Nov '14 3:18:54 AM by SaintDeltora

Just for insurance, you guys did actually view the screenshot of the post that contains the more detailed analysis, right? I'm not saying I diagree with your opinion of Anno should this conjecture prove true, mind you; I just want to make sure that all bases are covered, or however the metaphor goes.

For the record, I think the idea behind this speculation is that Anno may be upset that the NGE fandom by and large completely ignored his deliberate deconstructions of specific tropes in favor of doing the exact thing that prompted him to deconstruct those tropes in the first place (Rei, Asuka, the Super Robot Genre, etc.). If so, it's an understandable reason to be upset, but not enough to be a justification to... well, go Darker and Edgier Up To Eleven on all of us with what he touted as a remake to his magnum opus (unless there's another factor involved that severely compounded his negativity).

edited 20th Nov '14 4:48:53 AM by MarqFJA

I'll agree with that analyst on 1.0 being Eva as shown originally, and 2.0 being what some misaimed fans might have wanted out of Eva - there's way too many people who liked it for going in a different direction that wouldn't have felt out of place in Gurren Lagann or something.

I don't think I quite agree with the rest, though. 3.0 is probably a rebuke saying that 2.0 isn't Eva, but I don't think Anno wanted to force his own interpretation of things on people. Or rather, he's the creator, so clearly he has some opinion on how he thinks Eva is, even if he believes in the Death of the Author. Overall, it's an interesting analysis, but it probably isn't be the case. I mean, hell, it's an analysis from /a/, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

One of the anons in those threads posted a thing.

• Mari is to Yui, as in Yui represented the ideal love interest that Mari was based off of, and Mari had a young crush on, before transferring her affections to Asuka (a pilot).
• Kaworu is to Kaji, as in Kaji represented the ideal love interest that Kaworu was based off of, and Kaworu had a young crush on, before transferring his affections to Shinji (a pilot).
• While the adults (Yui and Kaji) end up being with their opposite sex love interest (Misato and Gendo, who are now linked because Misato Q has become Gendo.)

They also posted an image of Kaji and Kaworu that is likely from one of those Japanese only games.

So basically... "Homosexuality is for the immature"?

Because that's what it looks like to me.

Let me quote the Schoolgirl Lesbians page:

I know. I read that before. I wouldn't have posted if I didn't.

edited 20th Nov '14 9:08:00 AM by SaintDeltora

Since she is now forever 14 due to the curse, Mari will never grow out of it.

What Omega posted seems a bit of a stretch theme-wise. There are some parallels here and there, sure, but a lot of it seems cherry-picked. So Kaworu and Kaji interact in some game, in another continuity, as well? It doesn't really mean that much overall.

If anyone is misaimed in Rebuild, that's Anno himself, moreso than the audience. Because it's Anno and Co. who basically threw the train off the rails with 3.0. And I don't say this in a subjective manner; the direction of the plot in a more cynical path from what we saw in 2.0 is not what derails the movies. What derails them is the way the crew, to justify that shift, makes several huge narrative leaps and forces plot twists around, often contradicting in-universe and metatextual logics, to force the plot to jump through the hoops they wanted (or the ones they ended up wanting, if we take the theory they originally wanted to go another way, the one shown in the preview, and that's why the delays for the third movie. Generally speaking, changing your whole plot either improves it or greatly messes it up, the latter being more frequent when it's done on the march and once you already started telling the story).

Overall, I've always thought Anno is a massive hypocrite, projecting his own psychology and then assuming it's a psychological portrait of the whole human race. And then getting bent out of shape when fans disagree with that vision (even if many fans, undoubtably, are jerkasses and hypocrites in their own distinct ways).

Anno is more self-aware than you think. While for me the poster show for "creator is projecting their psychology as if it has some deep truth, only it turns out their psychology shares nothing with anyone else" has always been Victory Gundam, Evangelion has had strong elements of that. But Anno has shown at times that he knows Evangelion came from a place most of us can't relate to, most famously with his comment that it should not be analyzed, because it was "just a scream".

So the general "Evangelion as it was, as the fans see it, and as Anno sees it" may have validity, but I doubt it does in that interpretation. The first reason is Anno's self-knowledge. The second reason is that Anno's not the depressive loon he was when he wrote it originally. His brain chemistry now just won't let him write his original vision then. Things don't proceed in his head the same way no matter how much he tries. (I'm pretty confident in this having tried to replicate parts of work I wrote back during a depression period.)

So rather than the interpretation that it's about the plot and the original vision, I'd argue it's "Evangelion as it was, as the fans see it, and as Anno sees it" for the franchise. The first is what Evangelion was. The second is Evangelion as the fanbase sees it now that the movies are releasing; energized, upbeat, alive and hopeful.

And the third is Evangelion as Anno sees it. The weird continuity and time leap represent trying to interpret work that seems now as if it came from a different man and many years ago; the darker aspects and tone represent Anno having to deal with the feelings that revisiting his depression and breakdown cause; Asuka is a bitch to Shinji because depressive!Anno would think modern!Anno is hopeless loser; people are having breakdowns because that's where Evangelion came from, Anno's breakdowns; Gendo is callous and manipulative because that's how he thinks the studio exes who pushed this project are; and the "curse of EVA" is for pulling out a long-finished project as if it had never happened and having to do it over, being placed in effective stasis. The curse of EVA is, for Anno, literal: the work he did when he was mad has become who he is, even though he's sane now.

3.0 is Anno's therapy for dealing with having to make Evangelion again.

edited 20th Nov '14 1:59:19 PM by Night

I don't know. I think Anno can Evangelion just fine. 3 was weird and different and unexpected and offered more questions than answers, but it still feels like Evangelion. Really, it got really close to that feeling of watching Evangelion for the first time. For the first time in the Rebuild films, the audience was thrown completely out of the loop. Its all strange and new again. It doesn't seem to me to be thematically inconsistant with what Evangelion is and has been. It also doesn't completely shut off the idea of a constructive ending (i almost said happy). Rei was saved, just not in the capacity that Shinji believed. Asuka, Shinji and Q are together. If any of them are going to develop in any kind of almost healthy way, they couldn't have better company for it. Humanity is dead, yes, but its likely that their souls could be retrieved from the black ark egg thing I forgot the name of. Unit 01 is intact. Kawarou is likely not perma-dead. The wild card, Mari, is still around. Anything can happen, and things are going to get worse before getting better is even possible, but it'll probably be a good story the whole way through.

I'm not saying he can't do it.

I'm saying he's not having fun doing it.

My bit was more aimed at Napoleon, though it was kind of a general statement as well.

Did he ever enjoy it? Traditionally speaking, Evangelion comes from a very dark place. That he still puts it out there, well, I can't complain. Evangelion is fascinating for reasons I'm not sure I can even articulate properly. That he still makes it... I can't say I know what would drive him, but I appreciate it.

edited 20th Nov '14 2:37:30 PM by zeromaeus

I think what Anno really needs, but most likely will never be able to because it's too tall an order for almost anyone, is doing something else that outdoes Evangelion in the public perception. That, probably, is what would really exorcise his Evangelion demons for good.

It seems the Ikari Shinji Raising Manga is ending.

Did it ever get Mari? Because it was like the perfect place for her.

Wikipedia and Tvtropes don't mention her at all, so I guess not, but I could be wrong. I don't think the scanlations are up to date on it, so I can't personally check, either.

... Are there even scanlations of it in the first place? Or am I confusing this with NGE: Angelic Days (aka Girlfriend of Steel 2 in Japan)?

Have you guys seen Anno's latest animated short? Warning, absolutely NSFW.

What the fuck is wrong with him?!

That's actually not by Anno. It's just animated by Studio Khara (who do the Rebuild films) as part of a series of shorts that aim to show off new talent.

edited 25th Nov '14 4:38:31 AM by JRPictures

... What the heck is wrong with them?

They're doing an awesome job animating this, but they need to have their heads examined.