What/s defined as an RPG game?

This has always confused me. I've heard that Pokemon, of course, is considered an RPG because it has turn-based system and initiates a "battle scene". And yet at the same time I've heard that games such as Legend Of Zelda and Kingdom Hearts are considered one too, when they are very much not turn based and they do not initiate a battle scene, particularly LOZ. So what is defined as an RPG game then?

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That is an excellent question, especially with the genre-blending happening nowadays. I really can't give an answer.

edited 6th Nov '10 8:53:53 PM by VutherA

The line has become very very fuzzy. RPGs continually get more action elements and action games get more RPG elements. "RPG elements" tend to be things like levels, stats, or inventories. Numerical abstractions of combat. While obviously even in FPS game everything has hit points, and presumably your guns do numerical amount of damage, how obvious this is made is the distinguishing feature.

Personally, my standard for an RPG is whether or not hitting an enemy is based on your character's accuracy stat or your skill as a player.

edited 6th Nov '10 8:55:28 PM by Clarste

@OP, Well The Tales Series are RPGs and they're definitely not turn based. The mark of an RPG is I beleive based on numbers rather than player skill. Except for the Tales games which actually requires both.

edited 6th Nov '10 9:14:24 PM by ACDrawings

When All Else Fails, you have fun and flirt wit da ladies, dats da Drawings way!

Legend of Zelda has basically no characteristics of RPGs at all. It's pretty much an action game, with the puzzles and items and dialogue and such of an adventure game. That is, it's an action-adventure game. Kingdom Hearts is usually considered to be an action-RPG, since while the main gameplay is action based, there's a very large element of getting stronger by leveling up, and equipping your character with different abilities and equipment and whatnot.

My idea of a pure RPG is basically:

• Character stats play at least as much of a role as player skill.
• Characters get stronger over the course of the game, and gain new abilities.
• Combat is not primarily action-based, and is more strategic (though, usually not to the extent of an actual strategy game, as tactics rpgs are a different thing)
• The game incorporates adventure game elements, like puzzle solving, exploration, etc.

edited 6th Nov '10 9:18:09 PM by DYRE

Even the most basic turn based RPGs tend to require some skill, technically. If you just defend all the time it's impossible to win against anything.

edited 6th Nov '10 9:18:15 PM by Clarste

what about games like Epic Mickey and Metroid? I know that Warren Spector stated that he's incorporating some RPG things inside the former, but it really looks more action adventure/platformer to me. Same with the Metroid series, I remember a lot of people including this an an RPG too, but isn't that more of a shooter?

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.

Metroid is in no way shape or form an RPG.

Metroid is a platformer. Whoever says it's an RPG is wrong or lying.

When All Else Fails, you have fun and flirt wit da ladies, dats da Drawings way!

Seconding Clarste's opinion. RPGs are about a layer of statistical abstraction standing between the player and the Player Character, which allows the PC to do things the player can't, and prevents the player from doing things the PC can't.

Eric,

The only Legend Of Zelda Game that might qualify would be Zelda 2 because it had RPG Elements.

Personally, I think for something to be considered a RPG, it needs to have at least the following:

• Stats that have some sort of leveling system.
  • Direct levels do not necessarily apply, adjusting stats individually counts.
• Some sort of magic system.
• Some sort of ability system.
• Bits of storyline interspersed in the action. (This separated RPGs from other types of games especially in the early video game era.)

Other things that are not required to have an RPG, but help:

• Some sort of class system, even if it is not called that.
• Item system
• Armor and weapon system
• Mini games.
• Some form of Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors.
• Fetch quests!

I think that the reason that people confuse games like Metroid and The Legend Of Zelda with RPGs is mainly because of the presence of the secondary elements that I listed- armor and weapon upgrades with energy tanks or hearts to simulate HP leveling.

To me there are 2 kinds of rpgs mechanical RPG's and Role playinggames .

The first is defined by character skills of player skills and stats and stuff, while the second requires choice & consequences(buzzword *I know) and things of a similar aspect.

edited 7th Nov '10 2:52:27 AM by mahel042

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?

I guess I'm the only person who thinks that besides STATS STATS STATS an RPG allows the player to more or less play a role... in a game. This means a lot of choice. Obviously that would be how the PC develops with stats and whatnot, but it would also mean things like story choices, what order they do things in (sidequests), etc.

Maybe that's just what I get for being raised on open-world western action-RP Gs.

Also I don't think an RPG absolutely needs some kind of magic system; it just happens to be a trait that most RPGs have. Did the old Fallout games have magic? I never played them, so I don't know, but I do know they counted as RPGs, and the new Fallout doesn't have magic... So Yeah

edited 7th Nov '10 3:03:22 AM by ch00beh

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

You do realise this excludes almost every Roguelike ever made, right?

edited 7th Nov '10 3:44:47 AM by Darxzero

Escape.

The problem with the "role playing" definition is that in every game you play a role. In an FPS or a flight sim you play the role of a space marine or a fighter pilot doing their jobs. If you focus on the aspect of "choice" (which honestly doesn't have much to do with role playing, strictly speaking) you include pretty much any sandbox game, even those that clearly lack traditional RPG elements or even stories.

But anyway, I agree that magic should be in the second list rather than the first. It's a common element but by no means mandatory. It's really just a particular variation of ability system.

edited 7th Nov '10 4:03:56 AM by Clarste

The C&C thing is really more the province of Adventure Games than RPGs, I think. Even outside the world of computers, I believe branching stories were most prominent in Game Books, while an “actual” RPG is supposed to be a seat-of-your-pants thing reined in by stats.

Eric,

Why I dont think all the other games are playing a role is because it's mostly "reading from a script" or following pre-made choices. And you say that sandboxes have choices but are any of the meaningful from a plot/story point of view. while I agree that gameplay choices like using stealth or going in full auto are good I don't think that they are meaningful from plot perspective..

Edit: You bring up an interesting point with Adventure games both I think that most quests in RPGs that aren't fetch quest are usually similar to the puzzles found in adventure games.

edited 7th Nov '10 4:34:31 AM by mahel042

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?

^^^That's true.

I'm looking at The Other Wiki, and it defines an RPG as a game wherein players act out roles using either literal acting or "structure decision making" according to "formal rules and guidelines."

So I guess the best way to boil it down would be stats stats stats, but I feel like that's kind of dry when you think about all the rich narratives that are often associated with RPGs. (or narratives that you end up imagining when the devs didn't give an explicit one)

edited 7th Nov '10 4:32:33 AM by ch00beh

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter

Yeah...a true RPG IMHO, enables you to influence the story with choices. You not only play the game, you define the character (protagonist).

That's doesn't sounds like a JRPG. Those have premade characters with backstories and a linear plot that the play goes along with.

^ According to that line of thinking, Saga games aren't JRP Gs.

Satanic Hamster Now you see why some people think that JRP Gs aren't RP Gs.

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?

If by "RPG", the OP means "All CRPGS, both Western and Eastern", then the emphasis is definitely on stat building. Games that allow you to customize the protagonists stats and/or abilities however you see fit. Usually, there is also a Wide-Open Sandbox with at least a few side quests in it (Even in JRP Gs, which are more linear than WRP Gs, there is still a large explorable overworld).

When defining the term "RPG", there are 2 major groups who are considered "TRUE", and they are more or less:

• Character building
• Story building

Character building is like Mass Effect: Consequence, choices, more moral choices. Character building is like pokemon(more or less a ultimate example), or like Diablo.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.

^But in that sense, wouldn't Okami be considered an RPG? Because that's a very character oriented game, character centered game, as well as utilizing an emphasis on the the "stat stats stats" elements to progress throughout the game.

edited 7th Nov '10 8:19:02 AM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.