A Song Of Ice And Fire

Cersei's an example of finding out that her issues and excuses aren't nearly big enough to make up for the actions she actually does.

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I find Cersei's a good character for whom I have zero sympathy. While seeing things from her perspective can get tedious, it is fun to watch her dig her own grave while being completely oblivious to how self-destructive she's become.

Lord Tywin, she is not.

So, predictions for final winner? Dany is the most obvious possibility, but Littlefinger might manage to win somehow (though probably not by actually becoming king.).

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Dany winning seems a bit too obvious.Other than that, don't really have any ideas.

edited 8th Oct '10 1:26:06 PM by gentlemanorcus

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What, you mean Danny actually went back to conquer her lands? Well, her winning would make the entire story a Shoot the Shaggy Dog since Robert Baratheon's times... Which would be too obvious, yes.

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?

My prediction is that Littlefinger would win until the end where he fail spectacularly, and Varys will not be able to bring Dany where he wants.

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Is a final triumvirate of Dany, Jon, and Tyrion at all plausible?

Wait, there are people who actually think some of the Main Characters will be alive and happy at the end of the series? I just kind of assumed any conclusion would be a Bittersweet Ending or a Pyrrhic Victory.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

Again, I stand by the Stark kids. Magnificent Bitch, facechanging assassin, wolf-controlling mystic and a natural berserker. With such a cast, I feel almost fine about the Red Wedding - Robb was just a good and noble guy, thus simply the least interesting of the kids to claim the title of King of North.

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

Hmm. A victory for Sansa would also be a victory for Littlefinger, right?

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I hope he dies. Painfully.

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?

^^ Not if she backstabs him.

The Philosopher-King Paradox

I see no reason why Dany, Jon, and Tyrion would work together. Jon prefers to stay on the Wall, and Tyrion does not want to go back to the Wall. Together Dany and Tyrion might work together to secure Westros. (which might happen... remember Varys is the one helping Tyrion escape) Also I think there is a high chance that Dany will continue east and reach the Wall.

I think he is aiming for a Bittersweet Ending / Earn Your Happy Ending, but that of course that is my gut feeling YMMV.

Also I think Sansa is going to die.

Has ADD, plays World of Tanks, thinks up crazy ideas like children making spaceships for Hitler. Occasionally writes them down.

Whatever happens, I'm betting The End of the World as We Know It is a virtual certainty. Especially since I'm of the opinion there's some kind of connection between the “Doom of Valyria” and the seasonal cycle.

Eric,

^^If Sansa doesn't die horribly (along with the rape that no less than four characters have come close to committing) then she's going to end up the ultimate victor. I would be very surprised if her fate ended up being any kind of middle ground between those two.

Sansa victorious would be more interesting, I think. Tracing an arc from helpless, naive tool  ^*

to savvy, powerful player? Especially with the amount of readerhate she got at the beginning? Sign me up for it! Even more interesting would be if her moral/emotional development was not attached to her development of agency; the interactions between developments in each line could make for some fascinating reading.

edited 10th Oct '10 10:07:29 AM by Aoede

survival of the tight-lipped

All the factions will wipe one another out, leaving Westeros to be ruled by an incompetent minor character (say Mace Tyrell, although someone as influential as him will probably be dead in those circumstances)

My prediction for final winner? Jon Snow, possibly married to Dany as king of Westeros. If it doesn't happen I will eat my own legs and post it on Youtube.

I can see Littlefinger biting off more than he can chew at some point (for irony, I'm hoping this turns out to be the somewhat short Tyrion outgambiting him). Cersei has been busily digging her own grave, Arya isn't really after power, Stannis is much too obnoxious to ever succeed, Dany is for all intents and purposes a foreigner and the Greyjoys just suck on need to be put on the biggest bus ever. Tyrion I can see being successful, honestly, he's like a more selfless Littlefinger (albeit, he has very good reason to try to take vengeance on several people).

Whats with all the Littlefinger love anyway? He's a total bastard. Tyrion is just as good with the manipulations and much more likable.

edited 10th Oct '10 4:58:58 PM by Wagrid

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Well, he's a pretty magnificent one. The way he pushed Lysa out of the tower probably endeared a lot of fans towards him.

I've always wondered what Varys' role in all of it will be.

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^^ He's a total bastard, but he's really, really good at what he does. And he's got style :P

Tyrion's not really primarily a manipulator, I don't think. He does it, and sometimes he does it quite well indeed, but it seems that if he had no obligations (or threats to his life and living) he wouldn't continue playing the game. For me at least, Tyrion's niche is the Wronged Underdog, which is very different a flavor from Littlefinger's; I root for Tyrion fiercely, but marvel blackly at Littlefinger.

survival of the tight-lipped

I think I second most of the Littlefinger versus Tyrion comments.

...That said, I really hope that Littlefinger eventually gets beaten by Sansa. That'd be utter gold.

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There's also killing Joffrey. That earned him quite a bit of good will from the readers. Of course, we went on to squander most of it by being a creepy pedo.

The Philosopher-King Paradox

Much like with stage magicians, The Chessmaster who lets you see how he sets up his gambit just isn't going to awe you like the one who keeps his plans secret until they're finally unfurled.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

Is it just me, or for some time in the last novel, it totally looked like the whole thing will end up in the War Or The Five Queens?

It's still not impossible, but a lot less likely now. Too bad.

Am I the only one who finds himself laboring under The Chris Carter Effect regarding A Song Of Ice And Fire? When I got into the series, there were three books. There are now three and a half books. (Granted, A Feast For Crows was a full book in length, but only half a book in story.) As much as I love the series, I've found it impossible to maintain enthusiasm for five years with no new material coming out (especially when we were first told that the turnaround would be quick, since Martin was supposedly just adding the finishing touches to his already-mostly-complete other half of Feast For Crows). If that's taken five years and counting, then God only knows when the series as a whole will finish.

My prediction for final winner? Jon Snow, possibly married to Dany as king of Westeros.

This seems to be the obvious setup, which makes me hope furiously that it's not what happens, because I know I couldn't help myself from seeing it as a cop-out untwist, even if it's only so because we've been psychoanalysing these damn books for ten years. I'd sorta like to see Stannis end up on the throne, ultimately — it is his by rights, after all. And even if he's a jerk, he's not an evil jerk, and he's competent, which puts him several steps above everyone else aiming for the job. Stannis as king and Davos as hand (he's not dead, damnit! Unreliable Narrator! He's Just Hiding! Lalalalala!) = happy end, in my book.

edited 15th Nov '10 9:59:10 AM by NativeJovian

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