During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Put it on the main index with links on all the media subpages I say
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I requested to add it to the main index, just like Disney.
BTW, I'm a bit hesitant on Tarkin. By himself he'd qualify, but as bad as Palpatine? Not too sure.
EDIT: Lighty responded before I posted apparently 
. What he said.
edited 28th Apr '13 2:40:48 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Whether Palpatine is as heinous as Tarkin can also be turned into a legit question. The consensus is that both count - the evil overlord on one side and the cold-blooded planet killer.
Are we good at pulling all current CM examples from Star Wars in favour of links to the specific page?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, I can live with that.
Yep, Septimus is proposing what I had planned.
Tarkin, unlike Palpatine, is just a guy. He's not a Sith, a cultist, or anything. He's a perfectly ordinary, banal fellow.
Who has a planet with billions blown up to make a point.
Cleric of Banjo
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Too true. Vader's redemption...after blowing it up. The hell? 
Captain of USS Bajor
I'd say that since Star Wars began life as a film, it goes as a sub-bullet of Film.
edited 28th Apr '13 3:14:56 PM by StarSword
Vader did nothing to blow it up. Tarkin gave the order and had it destroyed. Vader didn't stop him (albeit he possessed no direct authority to override him).
The movie certainly cares about it. Obi-Wan's ominous "billions cried out and were silenced", it's brought up when the rebels meet...
Blowing up a planet is something damned unique in the films as well. There is nothing to exclude Tarkin and in the EU, he is only given worse crimes.
edited 28th Apr '13 3:13:29 PM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
From the script:
LEIA: No!
INTERIOR: DEATH STAR — BLAST CHAMBER.
VADER: Commence primary ignition.
A button is pressed which switches on a panel of lights. A hooded Imperial soldier reaches overhead and pulls a lever. Another lever is pulled. Vader reaches for still another lever and a bank of lights on a panel and wall light up. A huge beam of light emanates from within a cone-shaped area and converges into a single laser beam out toward Alderaan. The small green planet of Alderaan is blown into space dust.
edited 28th Apr '13 3:17:40 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The script might say it, but in the scene itself, Vader is silent. Tarkin tells them to proceed with the operation.
Palpatine sent Vader to the Death Star, which is Tarkin's command. While Vader technically outranks Tarkin, in Tarkin's place of order, he overrules anyone who isn't The Emperor
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
THAT makes sense. BTW, what does Tarkin do in the EU?
Landed a star destroyer on a bunch of peaceful protestors
"Moff" and "Darth" are power positions, not "Who qualifies for CM" ones.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, yeah, I know, I was being silly
I cut Rasputan and left a note for anyone still thinking he qualifies to bring it here.
There are two American Dad examples that were brought up here that we never decided on:
Stearnio from son of stan and the evil hot tub from hot water. I have not seen the episodes, but I did look up info on them. Basicly, Stevarnio is a clone of Steve done as an expirament to see how he would have turned out if he was only raised by Stan. He is not Madeof Evil, though he is a very evil character, he kills and eats hundreds of cats for no reason and keeps there heads as trophies. He kidnaps the real Steve and tries to kill him so he can take his place and shoots down a chance at redemption. The evil living hot tub came to life after being struck by lightning, killed it's first owner, escaped from a mental hospital where it commited rapes, and kills four main characters by the end of the episode (it was a non canon episode that was origonaly meant to be a Downer Ending series finale).
Aside from a brief scene where Stevarnio juggles a bunch of cats heads and the evil hot tubs rape backstory neither characters are ever played for laughs, in fact, the hot water episode had little to no comedy in it. From what I understand, while the killing of it's first owner and the rapes are offscreen, the four murders are all onscreen, is killing four people enough?
edited 28th Apr '13 3:56:23 PM by bobg
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Didn't see the ep w/ Stevearino. As for the Hot Tub: Voiced by Cee Lo Green, has an AWESOME Villain Song, and came alive after being struck by lightning. Does it even have moral sentience?
edited 28th Apr '13 4:16:43 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cleric of Banjo
I still say the premise with the tub is too inherently ridiculous to take seriously.
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
I agree, though that episode does get pretty dark at the end.
"In distress", my ass.
Other than Occasional Exister saying both should be cut (here), anyone have any further input on the Schlock Mercenary entries I mentioned in this post?
Xinchub is unambiguously not an example. While what he does is probably worse, he apparently started out as a WIE and Petey (who I would consider a pretty reliable source) considers him redeemable.
I don't think Max qualifies either, but I can't remember as much about him.
A total has-been.
@the American Dad examples: A case could be made for Stevearino, but not the Hot Tub. It was purely a parody of Audrey II, who wasn't even a Complete Monster itself.
The examples on the American Dad YMMV page are also terribly written.
edited 28th Apr '13 7:38:51 PM by AnewMan
Then I'll cut the hot tub and fix Stvarnio's entry tommorow (right now, I am exausted as its 1133 in my time zone).
the usage count keeps growing, will we ever get rid of all the bad examples?
edited 28th Apr '13 9:35:32 PM by bobg
jjj
Cut the hot tub. Seriously. Some of the examples we get here.
The Star Wars monster page is here.
Incidentally, since it's a multimedia franchise - where do we index it?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman