During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
ultron no one saw this coming.
edited 16th Oct '17 1:27:35 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Ultron. What a twist.
Messenger from another dimension.
Ultron
to Ultron of course.
Ultron. That bastard's as bad as they get.
Ultron
Is the only one that doesn't count the MCU version?
The Unknown Unknown
Ultron. Already knew that was coming.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The one from Earth's Mightiest Heroes doesn't count either.
And there's the Lego version of Ultron.
I incidentally watched that on Netflix on a whim while writing the EP.
Well, I'll get around to my write ups in due time. Give people more time to vote of course also I'm lazy.
Ultron half of Ultron-Sigma. Reminds me of how we decided on Machinedramon.
edited 16th Oct '17 2:32:23 PM by VeryMelon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So one of the things I feel should be addressed in the FAQ is whether or not Protagonists can count as a CM.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
A Villain Protagonist? Oh yes, we have several. "Not Important" from Hatred and the guy from EvilQuest come to mind.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Don’t understand how adding that is necessary. Seems well understood enough.
Lizzid people!
There's also Charles Decker, Mr. Wong and Charles Cooper.
Ultron.
edited 16th Oct '17 3:24:33 PM by AustinDR
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
...Mr. Blonde; the guy from Red Zone Cuba; Lou Bloom from Nightcrawler; any of several from horror anthology series; Light Yagami...it's so prevalent, I'm not sure the FAQ needs it.
edited 16th Oct '17 3:23:30 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Btw does anyone mind if I go ahead and reserver discussion for season 4 of iZombie?
Incognito, Legion, Ultron.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Go for it.
Incidentally, this will be Ultron's 8th incarnation.
edited 16th Oct '17 4:14:31 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Another baddy from Halo: the Andromeda War in the form of Ysanne Isard:
Who is she?
The head of Imperial Intelligence in the Galactic Empire during the age of the Empire.
What has she done?
Well, she framed her father (who taught her everything she knows) and had him executed just so she could take command of Imperial Intelligence. She has her spies infiltrate various UNSC border worlds to start civil wars although these all fail. She later orders soldiers to go into ghettos on Coruscant where the aliens are forced to live, brutally take children away from thier families, and then shoot all the alien witnesses down to keep her actions a secret. When captured and in the middle of being Mind Raped by the UNSC intelligence force, when the UNSC squad is horrified by what her men have done, all she says is "Is..isn't it glorious...?" When the squad demand she to know what she is doing with all those innocent children, she says that since they are "creatures that infest Imperial Center, they might as well be put to use if they're going to procreate" and when they ask her about the bodies, she just says "What about them? There's many more where those came from". The UNSC even nicknames her 'Iceheart', and her own second in command refuses to give her painkillers to ease her inevitable death from mental and physical exhaustion, saying that she'd do the same to him. Heck, in the mind rape torture, all Isard can hear (besides having a veeeery long nightmare that she is actually being raped) is voices calling her a monster. The aforementioned nightmare is IMMENSELY satisfying considering the thousands she murdered.
Redeeming qualities or Freudian Excuse?
Big fat NOPE. She made sure her own father and role model was killed just so she could take charge, and showed zero care for the alien children that she butchered.
Heinous Standard?
Only palpatine beats her. Tarkin isn't mentioned much in the series before he dies, and what Isard does is on a whole new level of xenophobic experimenting.
Conclusion?
An evil, heartless, racist bitch that is a combination of Bellatrix Lestrange, Mengele, and Halsey with none of the good and all of the bad qualities (well, only Halsey had good qualities).
Btw, page 30 of halo the andromeda war talks more about what she's done as it reveals her actions during the UNSC's mind rape of her, but what they find is just nightmare fuel. Look up at your own risk.
So you're saying she killed her father, attempted civil wars and kidnapped alien children, killing those who saw? My issues here are she's sharing a fic with Palpetine and I'm questioning how much of this happens on screen. Also, it sounds like her death is horrible to the point it could invoke audience sympathy, now definitely leaning ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
edited 16th Oct '17 8:11:57 PM by 43110
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Ysanne. Close, but isn't heinous enough compared to Palpatine.
Definitely an interesting candidate to bring up, though. Neat choice.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
With erazor0707’s blessing, it’s time to final EP this bastard.
What is the work?
Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series! The first game in the long running crossover fighting game series to feature a comprehensive story mode which is of…
Dubious quality.
But we got a baddie to EP!
Who is the villa- Ultron.
What, are you surprised or something?
What has he done?
Summoned by Thanos to help him break into Abel City in exchange for its tech, Ultron hacks a forcefield, bringing him face to face with Sigma. Deciding that any conflict would just result in their mutual destruction and that they kinda how they’re both really smart and evil, they concoct a plan to fuse together.
When Ultron and Thanos enter his lab, Ultron rips off Sigma’s head.
…strange creative decision considering Mega Man’s issues.
Anyway, doing this allows Ultron to be infected with the Sigma Virus as they both planned, thus creating Ultron Sigma. He takes Reality Stone, betrays and defeats Thanos taking him prisoner and stealing his Space Stone. With both Stones, Ultron Sigma fuses the Marvel and Capcom universes so they can conquer both.
Attacking Xgard, Ultron Sigma infect practically everyone there, parading them in front of Thor, mocking him that he will be “their prince once again”. He lets our heroes rescue Thanos so they can lead him to the rest of the stones. Oh, and it turns out he did infect Thor, forcing him to fight his friends while mocking them all the while, speaking through Thor.
He is also assisted by Grandmaster Meio from the Strider series – himself no stranger to this trope – to drop a bomb onto Earth that will infect the entire planet. He even went as far as to try to drop it on top of Avengers Tower itself.
He attacks the Tower to try and kill Thanos and steal the rest of the Infinity Stones.
While our heroes stop the bomb, they and a sizable portion of New York are infected, with but hours to go. Launching a final assault on Ultron Sigma, they claim they want to give them eternal life. Morrigan snarks it’s overrated, while Strider Hiryu more bluntly states they only offered them hell. Ultron Sigma once again mocks and gloats, siccing Thor on them, crushing one of his defeated drones heads for no real reason.
He then gloats some more about how Dante has betrayed them and brought him the Soul Stone, which he did… except only a noble soul can channel its power. Ultron Sigma is soulless so it hurts them bad.
Which turns them into Ultron Omega.
K.
As revenge, they attempt to painfully drain Dante of their life, but they are finally defeated when X uses all four remaining Stones and a Spirit Bomb I think to blow Ultron Sigma away.
Freudian ExcuNO.
Mitigating factors?
Notice how I’ve put more emphasis on Ultron than Sigma?
Well, according to the in game bios, this Sigma was, indeed, infected by the Maverick Virus that turned him evil. So, Sigma can’t count. But does this affect Ultron? I think not.
Ultron knew what he was getting into, made his plans with Sigma before the Fusion Dance and what he does as Ultron Sigma is just his usual MO anyway. He isn’t infected by Sigma as much as completely fused with him.
We never see him with Meio, so we don’t know their relationship is beyond Meio just wanting to see humanity suffer.
He doesn’t care about his drones or his infected slaves. Obviously.
Finally, Ultron and Sigma seem to like each other, but since they basically consider each other their equal with similar goals and they end up fusing I see this as being fairly egotistical. It’s also a little similar to Bellatrix likin Voldy. I mean, they’d hate each other if either one of them tolerated humanity.
Oh, and for that “no soul” thing. I’m not sure if it’s because they’re a robot or just super evil, but X and Zero are present and have explicit moral agency as Reploids so I think we’re OK here.
So…It’s Ultron as usual.
Heinousness?
It’s unclear if this is in continuity with the other Mahvel games – which would be weird because those games had nothing more than an Excuse Plot. But even if it was – in fact, even if we take into account all of Marvel and Capcom’s universes I think Ultron Sigma’s plan to enslave all life by extinguishing all souls… I mean, it slightly stands out, don’t you think?
As for other villains, Thanos apparently did stuff but that’s all off screen and Jedah Dohma works with MODOK to infuse a Symbiote with millions of Earthling souls to make it strong enough to beat Ultron Sigma. As bad as this is, Jedah’s still an Anti-Villain WIE., claiming that a million, even a billion souls is nothing compared to all the souls in creation that Ultron Sigma will snuff out.
Also, Jedah worked with Mistress Death to fuse the Marvel and Capcom universes together, claiming in the Capcom verse “heroes never truly die” and that he wants equilibrium. Again, the game treats Ultron Sigma’s plan as worse, and these two are just doing their job.
Conclusion?
Another Ultron counts?
YOU WA SHOCK!
Admittedly not the most interesting version of him, but I think he passes our standards.
If approved I’ll put more emphasis on Ultron than Sigma.