During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
You should take everything I say seriously.
Especially the stuff you shouldn't.
Wisdom is found in madness.
Anyway, I got an EP for tomorrow which is discussion date for this particular work, but I'm in a different timezone to the Americas.
EDIT: Ah, forget it.
edited 24th May '17 2:14:11 PM by PolarPhantom
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Uh.........okay?
Also what game/movie/show did you plan on proposing?
Ah. Nevermind. ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
edited 24th May '17 2:24:17 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Wait so we are cutting kazawa just because he loved his daughter in the past if it doesn't apply to him in the present why would it matter. This is kind of like Ego's situation with Meredith where he loved her in the past but not anymore in the present.
It was just stated Kakuzawa did nothing to invalidate his actual redeeming quality. The comparison with Ego is faulty because Ego went out of his way to destroy that redeeming quality himself. Kakuzawa doesn't do the same.
Lizzid people!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Avatar by Leafsnake
I'm pretty sure that the Director had more of a presence than only the last episode (though that was where he does the most things). He's still a minimal presence in the story.
And, his love for his daughter isn't just a past thing. He reiterates that he does care for her right before he dies.
And even if that wasn't there, like Scraggle said, he doesn't do anything to invalidate that trait like Ego. And I'm almost sad I missed the Ego debate. I don't disagree with the ruling or anything, but man was he a surprisingly good Marvel villain.
edited 24th May '17 4:37:22 PM by DrPsyche
Wow.
He says it right before he dies?
Makes me wonder why we ever had him up.
Because Witch of the Absolute is a liar, probably.
I've finished my EP. Been working on it for a week. I'll wait a bit, of course. I'll probably post it before I leave my house.today.
Tis the early hours of Thursday 25th where I live.
Sleep well, one and all.
Avatar by Leafsnake
@Polar: He goes on a whole motive rant and says a lot of things to Lucy right before he dies including his plan, what happened to her mother, the half sibling she has, etc. His love for Anna's just one of those.
On an unrelated side note, I noticed that out of the 50 villains on AF Is 100 Years 100 Heroes And Villains, eleven of the fifty villains are a CM, and two other works have a CM but the villain listed is not one.
Looks like Broderick was voted down, fair enough. I thought he would be something of a long shot, but I do like going forward with some long shot proposals some times.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Allison "Alice" Witzenberg, Alice from Pilgrim, Kwodahn (I remember Xcalibur, vaguely; the most memorable thing about it was a cool retracting scabbard for the eponymous sword), and Evil (Iburu, if you prefer the original Japanese).
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Wilfre, Marx, and Broderick Bazin.
I found this example in the nightmare fuel page for Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
- In the novelization, it is revealed that Mola Ram is just another brainwashing victim too. ANYONE could turn into a monster like him, and all it takes is a sip of the right blood, through no fault of their own. Though kudos on making someone like him into a Tragic Monster.
Would this disqualify Mola Ram as a complete monster? This is only shown in the novelization.
Only in the novelization being the key words. No, he still counts for the film
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Also, the last sentence of that is Natter. Entry could use some rewriting. Regardless, what Lightysnake said.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Evil (or Iburu if you prefer the original Japanese) is unanimous now, so here's his writeup.
Evil/Iburu is the Greater-Scope Villain of the first three games and the orchestrator of everything bad that happens. Seemingly enslaving Ogura at a young age, he tells Ogura to destroy Pufftop and when he fails, gives him "another chance" in the form of painfully transforming him into an Eldritch Abomination. He attempts to execute Moe before his father preforms a heroic sacrifice, but Evil doesn't mind this outcome. At the end of the game, Evil discards of Ogura after he is no longer of use to him, and claims that he's going to destroy the entire universe, For the Evulz. A psychopathic, Ax-Crazy, seemingly invincible demon, Evil is a far cry from the lighthearted, sometimes even tragic villains, and is a Knight of Cerebus in this family-friendly game.
Looks good to me
I'm back with another proposal, btw...from another Wu Xia/Kung Fu film. The work is one of the finest of the famed actress given the lovely name 'Lady of Swords' Cheng Pei Pei...Lady Hermit
The work concerns a young woman arriving in a town beset by murderous 'ghosts,' in truth the minions of an evil martial artists known only as The Black Demon....she ends up in the household of the Wang family and befriends a servant who is, of course, the heroic Lady Hermit, who's been fighting the forces of The Black Demon.
So, who's the Black Demon?
An evil martial artists who long ago turned from the path of righteousness, the Black Demon is a callous bandit lord who had been using his men to go out, pillage and kill for fun and profit. However, the heroic warrior Shang yu-Ling confronted him several years ago to implore the Black Demon to turn from the path of evil. Not realizing that a man named the Black Demon was perhaps not interested in a decent lecture, the Black Demon attacked her, wounding her horribly and she badly managed to escape, taking refuge in the home of the Wang family as a servant. by night, she sneaks out in a robe and veil to protect the town from the Black Demon and his men.
In order to lure his new nemesis into a trap (not knowing who she is), the Black demon proceeds to have his men pose as murderous ghosts, waylaying and killing travelers and also killing townspeople at random. As a result, the people get scared and make offerings to the temple the Black Demon secretly controls. In other words, he's killing people to keep embezzling religious donations. Dick move, BD, dick move.
Our heroine engages the Black demon'smen, and is saved by Lady Hermit...also learning the Blakc Demon has begun using a fake Lady Hermit to kill their victims and sow discord. Unfortunately for our heroes, he proceeds to learn that his nemesis is staying at the Wang family household...so he sends his men to massacre the entirety of the household, the Wangs, the servants, everyone. After, our heroes end up fighting their way through his men to engage the Blakc Demon personally. Lady Shang finally arrives before the Black Demon can kill her protege and said protege's love interest, before engaging her old nemesis in a final duel to the death, ending by skillfully defeating his style by using small daggers to deal him multiple wounds before ending it by stabbing two daggers into his skull.
Mitigating Qualities?
Absolutely zero. No excuse, redeeming qualities or anything to him. Only named villain as well.
Conclusion?
Another eastern cinema keeper.
Yea to the Black Demon.
Oh, will have Bragan up soon, too.
edited 24th May '17 11:45:20 PM by Lightysnake
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Black Demon
to the Black Demon
Black Demon
Didn't he literally show up in the last episode? I don't remember correctly.