Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Wonder why that one post of mine was thumped. Oh well.

Yeah, with only two CM's in it, Darren Shan definitely shouldn't have it's own page for CM's.

Cut that subpage.

Anyways, since today is it's due-date, time to talk about Vixen.

Vixen is an animated superhero show spinoff of the Arrowverse. taking place in the same universe. It follows Mari McCabe, better known as Vixen, who wields a powerful totem known as the Tantu Totem, granting her the powers of the animal kingdom. There are five totems in total, and several villains have attempted to steal them, particularly a man named Benatu Eshu.

Who Is He?

Benatu Eshu is the Big Bad of season 2 of Vixen. He is a former army general and Zambesi warlord turned ambassador, and seeks to capture all five totems.

What Does He Do?

Many years in the past, Eshu discovered the Tantu Totem was located in a village, where Mari, then an infant, lived. He promptly launched a massive raid of the village, massacring scores of villagers and burning the village to the ground. When Mari's father attempted to stand up to him, Eshu had him gunned down on the spot. He then attacked Mari's mother as she attempted to flee with an infant Mari, injuring her severely. She just barely managed to escape with Mari. The only other survivor of the massacre was Mari's sister, Kuasa (the Big Bad of season 1).

In the present, Eshu learns that the totems are located in Detroit, and arrives in the city disguised as an ambassador. Once there, he bribes a thief into stealing the Fire Totem for him. Once the thief delivers the totem to him, Eshu wears it and gains control over fire. He promptly uses his new powers to burn the thief alive.

Mari arrives on the scene, and Eshu immediately recognizes her as the daughter of the woman who once wielded the Tantu Totem. The two engage in a battle across the building, with Eshu trying to take Mari's totem. The battle ends in a stale-mate, and Eshu abandons the fight. Mari, realizing that she can't fight Eshu alone, forms an Enemy Mine with Kuasa to take him down.

Eshu, meanwhile goes full Ax-Crazy mode, going on a city-wide rampage across Detroit and setting a massive portion of the city on fire, causing chaotic damage. He vows to bring an "apocalypse" on the people of Detroit unless Mari comes out to face him.

Mari and Kuasa settle their differences and resolve to take out Eshu before he burns down the whole city. The two are joined by Black Canary and The Atom just in time to see Eshu blow up an entire building before he rushes down to face the heroes. A battle across the street ensues, with Canary and Atom being swiftly defeated. Kuasa, wielding the Water Totem, duels Eshu alone, claiming that she will "not run from a fight".

Seconds before she is incinerated.

With Mari the only one standing, Eshu turns his attentions to her, vowing to "do to her what he should have done to her mother." Their battle reaches the harbor, where Mari manages to take the Fire Totem from Eshu. Despite this, Eshu still proves to be a threat, battling Mari underwater, before finally being knocked out and left to sink underwater, presumably drowning, while Mari destroys the Fire Totem.

Freudian Excuse and other mitigating factors

He has no Freudian Excuse. As for redeeming traits...well, during his first fight with Mari, he offers to let her live if she gives him the totem, but this seems more like pragmatism. Later on, during the final battle, he rants to Mari "While you burn, remember that I wanted to handle this as human beings!"

Note: he says this while burning down Detroit.

Heinousness

This is what gives me pause. In the Vixen 'verse alone, no one outclasses him, with the previous Big Bad, Kuasa, only amounting to trying to kill Mari to get the totem. Aside from that, she has a rather valid Freudian Excuse of her entire village having been destroyed.

So, going by the show alone, pass. The thing that makes me hesitate is that the show takes place in the same universe as the rest of the Arrowverse. Even then, I don't see that as much of an issue, giving the amount of damage he causes in his limited screen-time: he has the massacre of an entire village (which is shown extensively in flashbacks, thus isn't Offscreen Villainy), burning a man alive when he gave him the Fire Totem, and burning down a massive portion of a city, which no doubt killed scores of civilians, and the deaths of at least two of Mari's family members on his hands.

Final Verdict

Strongly leaning Yes, but I'll wait for further votes.

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:24:00 AM by Clown-Face

Also, the Moderators are enforcing the rule because of the hollers more than anything. Even the most frequent mod in this topic(Fighteer) is clearly not posting on here that often(I don't know if he lurks it heavily, but that isn't the point), so just assume a mod won't see it by default and holler the rule-breaking. Easier that way.

Yes to the Vixen villain.

So, it's been two weeks since Pokemon Sun and Moon released, but before I say anything... am I still allowed to talk about anyone? I mean, I was ready to report back on the villains until I logged on and saw that people just now want to delay it until next week. -_-

There isn't anything wrong with giving your two cents.

Eshu. Planning on watching Incarnate today. If not, I'll be watching God Told Me To.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:18:38 AM by AustinDR

I don't think it was OFFICIALLY 2 weeks. BTW, did you see my question about Mason?
Eshu BTW.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:10:27 AM by ACW

Sun and Moon came out in America (along with most countries that aren't Europe) on November 18th at midnight. Now it's December 2nd, 14 days after release. I'd say it's fair game to discuss it now. To save on people getting spoiled despite the two weeks passing, we can just put spoiler tags. But discussion is fair game now.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:14:26 AM by Awesomekid42

to Eshu. His pyromania makes Mick Rory seem sane by comparison.

edited 2nd Dec '16 7:24:18 AM by speyeker

On the moderator bit, that's as it should be. Any posts containing a violation of the two-week rule should be reported. I wouldn't be averse to handing out forum bans to repeat offenders to get the point across, but that's a matter the moderators can concern themselves with.

Yes to the Vixen villain. As for Sun and Moon, it's been two weeks since the American release date, so I think discussion is fair to start now so long as spoiler tags are used. Any contention on that?

Sounds good to me

Yes, go ahead and talk about Sun and Moon. It's been two weeks, and everyone seems to have blue balls about the game's villain.

Eshu.

Well, then. Nobody counts. The main villain has serious moral agency issues as revealed in the post-game and is bar to more than a few sympathetic/tragic moments. Nobody else is heinous enough. I'll leave any further details to Fried Warthog, as he's reserved discussion.

Well if people are okay with it, I'll get to typing. For courtesy's sake though, I'll be using spoiler tags since at least one person wanted them. I just hope that they work right, because I'm still on mobile. So anyway...

Unlike most mainstream Pokemon games, Sun and Moon took some cues from Colosseum gave us two evil teams: the pristine-looking Aether Foundation which pretends to be an orginazation that focuses on Pokemon conservation while shady research regarding eldritch monsters from another dimension happens behind closed doors, and Team Skull which is a team of Pokemon-stealing wanna-be street gangstas, who nobody takes seriously whatsoever. They're also secretly on the Aether Foundation's payroll.

Now (your boy!) Guzma, the boss of Team Skull definitely doesn't count: the guy fails the heinous standard by a county mile and turns over a new leaf at the end.

Now the Aether Foundation's president, an eccentric and seemingly elegant woman by the name of Lusamine, is easily the nastiest villain to grace a Pokemon game thus far. She's a complete nutjob who seeks to open a portal to "Ultra Space", a bizzare dimension that's home to insanely powerful eldritch Pokemon-like monsters known as Ultra Beasts. She has a fanatical obsession with these creatures and doesn't care in the slightest that they'll destroy the world: they fit her psychotic definition of beauty and as far as she's concerned, everyone else deserves to die for not fitting her standards of perfection.

And to unleash the Ultra Beasts, she does what is probably the biggest act of cruelty in the main series: she tortures a small, adorable Pokemon called Cosmog (Nicknamed "Nebby") that can open Ultra Wormholes when it's stressed out to a state of near-death with a deranged grin on her face. Other noteworthy acts of cruelty of hers include keeping several Pokemon frozen alive as trophies, being a horribly controlling, emotionally abusive bitch to her children Lillie and Gladion, and attempting to murder Lillie in a fit of rage after being defeated by the player.

But unfortunately, she doesn't count. The reason why is... kinda weird to discuss.

The short version is because she was an originally decent person corrupted by exposure to the mind-altering chemicals of the jellyfish-like Ultra Beast Nihelego.

But the long version is a lot more complex: in the past Lusamine was a loving mother and good wife who deeply loved her scientist husband. She was more-or-less a decent person, but after her husband disappeared in an expiriment gone wrong, she fell into a deep depression. She lost herself in her Ultra Beast related work, and thanks to repeatedly exposing herself to the mind-altering venom of the Ultra Beast Nihilego during her experiments, her obsession with finding her husband turned into an obsession with the Ultra Beasts, and that obsession led to her becoming a cruel, unhinged individual and really strained her relationship with her children.

Also, after she tries to kill Lillie and is forcibally separated from a Nihilego she fused with, she has a moment of clarity where she reaches out to Lillie, affectionately touching her, and calling her beautiful before slipping into a coma, showing that the loving, caring Lusamine is still in there somewhere. After the game ends, she's stated to be resting in a treatment facility where Lillie wants to show her the error of her ways.

That being said, Nihilego's venom doesn't absolve Lusamine of any blame for her actions: she was aware of the effects it would have on her, yet she continued to recklessly expose herself to it anyway while her co-conspirator Guzma had enough sense to back off after he was exposed to it.

And Nihilego venom doesn't exactly brainwash you either: it's mainly an inhibition amplifier that strengthens already dark desires, which doesn't do a lot to paint Lusamine in a flattering light. Not to mention that it raises a lot of questions: Was Lusamine simply a decent person with disturbing thoughts she never would have acted on otherwise? Or was she already slowly turning into a horrible person and Nihilego only sped up the inevitable?

Either way, there's too much in regards to mitigating factors for her to count. I talked about this with A New Man and he agreed: Lusamine seems to be an allegory for drug abuse: she was a decent person who thanks to recklessly abusing a mind-altering substance in the wake of a devastating loss transformed into an unstable wreck of a human being who hurt those closest to her. There's definitely a chance for redemption for her, but she'll have a LOT to make up for.

That being said, she's definitely the kind of person I could see getting the CM treatment in an alternate form of media, so at the very least I can recommend keeping tabs on her anime and manga incarnations.

edited 2nd Dec '16 12:01:00 PM by FriedWarthog

Benatu Eshu

I'd doubt that the anime or any other substantial material would leave out those mitigating factors. But, you have Cyrus so it's possible in theory, I guess.

edited 2nd Dec '16 8:38:35 AM by AustinDR

@Austin DR: Well I mean, the anime DID give us a monstrous Cyrus, and Lysandre (Despite not counting) came off as far crueler than his game incarnation.

Pokemon Special is also no stranger to adaptational villainy: Ghetsis and Lysandre are more evil than their game selves, and the manga also turned heroic/good characters like Lance, Agatha, and Pryce into horrible people. I think it's fair to keep an eye on other incarnations of Sun and Moon's villain seeing the anime and manga's track record.

The Big Bad of Sun and Moon not counting was something I expected long before the game released.

Yeah, Lusamine is a regardless of how hateable she is, as was covered when those Steven Universe non-examples came up. I definitely feel she's well over the Moral Event Horizon and passes the heinous standard, but unlike many hardcore uses of that trope, I don't believe that means a villain can't turn themselves back around from the Horizon if they chose to - it'd just be a very gradual thing and their crimes would still be unforgivable even if they themselves are pardoned. Moreover, this villain wasn't just mentally ill like Cyrus and Lysandre, but was legitimately morally and mentally impaired by what she had repeatedly done to herself, and has sort of a Blue And Orange Insanity going on where she completely believes that all of her actions are driven by pure love, and she wants to love everyone and everything that she views as being worthy of that love, while all she deems unworthy of it are "ugly" and not needed in her life, which came to include her actual family. But with a sound mind, she allegedly loved her husband very dearly and can recognize her child's true beauty.

For extra clarification, this is the Jerkass Woobie entry I wrote up for this character:

• Even My Beloved Smother herself, Lusamine, has some Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds qualities going on. We learn in the postgame that the reason she was initially doing so many experiments with wormholes, ultra energy, and Ultra Beasts was to recover her beloved husband, Hohn, who got lost in a wormhole during one of their earlier tests, and it's heavily suggested that too much repeated mind possessions by Nihelego and exposure to its toxins left her Brainwashed and Crazy, making her forget about her love for her family altogether and shift her affections towards the Ultra Beasts. So in all her abuse of her children and the atrocities she committed against other living creatures, her mind was warped to believe that pure motherly love was still driving her actions and her delusions were so great that she couldn't see the reality of situations she caused, couldn't comprehend how her children could reject her "love", and couldn't understand what she was doing wrong. As horrible a person as she became, her situation is undeniably tragic, mirroring people who turn to addictions and substance abuse in the wake of a personal tragedy, and the effects it has on both them and their family.

This is why I said that the next serious Pokemon candidate to be discussed in the foreseeable future is Manga!Ghetsis, and then maybe a future incarnation of Lusamine as well.

edited 2nd Dec '16 8:53:45 AM by ANewMan

to Lusamine, though I gotta say that I wasn't expecting Sun and Moon to have such a heinous villain.

Yeah...

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:08:16 AM by Awesomekid42

After a villain who wanted to use time/space powers to tear apart the universe and unmake reality itself so that he can recreate everything to match his own vision with him as God, a villain who horribly warped his own son in order to make him his pawn, exploited the way the systems in the Pokemon World worked so that he could reap benefits and gain power, had populated areas and cities blasted with ice, and threatened homicide on the child player character twice, and a villain who was a total misanthropic madman who wanted to use a super weapon to exterminate as much humans and Pokemon in the world that weren't chosen by him to survive so that resources could be preserved and the planet could stay beautiful...you really think we would have caught on by now.

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:05:49 AM by ANewMan

@Fried-Warthog: I mean I can understand that on Anime!Cyrus as his excuse isn't brought up in the anime, but Lusamine's mitigating factors are self-evident. Either the writers would have to completely rewrite her character, or change her motivation. Sorry if it sounds like I'm giving those hack writers too much credit.

edited 2nd Dec '16 9:29:26 AM by AustinDR

Well going by the first few episodes I wouldn't be surprised given how completely they've changed one or two characters so far.

Eshu

Either the writers would have to completely rewrite her character, or change her motivation.

That's sort of what they did with Cyrus, though. His motivations in the games were not to create an empty new world "for him alone" - it was to create a new world without spirit so that there'd be no more strife and all the living creatures he'd bring back into the world could live in peace and function to their highest potential, with him being the only one to not live in that world because he'd be sustaining it all as it's new God. In fact, wanting an ideal world solely for them alone is closer to Lusamine's motive!

By the way, I recall someone (was it Austin DR?) making a "It was me, Dio!" joke about Ghetsis once on this thread? Yeah, Patrick Seitz, using his Dio Brando voice, was the voice for Ghetsis in today's Pokemon Generations episode. Hilarious in Hindsight, no?

edited 2nd Dec '16 10:06:13 AM by ANewMan

to Benatu Eshu.