During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tian and Craddock
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"At one point, he personally kills a child in front of the village headman to get the man to talk, then kills the man anyways when he can't give him the answers he wants."
That's enough for me. Mi Tian Hi/Betsutengai. Craddock too.
to Craddock.
Wild Child
Craddock.
Batsutengai and Craddock.
Batsutengai and Craddock.
Tian and Craddock.
to Tian and Craddock.
Does anyone else have any opinions on Baron Heinrich Zemo? So far I have one no vote and 4 yes votes.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
According to everything you've said, it's an easy
edited 22nd Oct '16 3:16:15 PM by MiraiYuji
Lizzid people!
Zemo and Craddock.
edited 22nd Oct '16 3:23:21 PM by AustinDR
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Zemo, Craddock, and Betsutengai.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Should Betrayal at House on the Hill get its own page, or just dump all 5 on tabletop games?
Unsure on Zemo. When he rigged the death ray to explode, did he just intend to kill the heroes, or did he deliberately target civilians? If the former, I'm abstaining. If the latter, I'll give a VERY slight
Well the impact of the death ray exploding was addresed more in the Medusa Effect story, rather then the original Howling Commandos story, the orginal story just had Zemo's castle explode and then the story ends. Medusa Effect (written decades later) shows a German town devasated by the explosion and the Allies droping leafets blaming Zemo for the town's destruction and that explains Zemo's unpopularity and his having to wear the hood.
Though in the original story Nazis under Zemo's command were shelling the town in order to kill Fury, destroying half the town, so I think Medusa Effect just conflates those two events.
edited 22nd Oct '16 4:35:13 PM by Overlord
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So either way he seemed to think of civilians as mere collateral damage. Okay, I'll say , but VERY slight.
BTW, I hope to have this week's (rather large) batch tomorrow by 1 PM.
edited 22nd Oct '16 3:58:30 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Tian and Craddock. Abstaining on Zemo for now.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
From the quotes page.
I'm only seeing any indication of evilness in the last sentence, and even then, it's vague at most. Cut?
The Unknown Unknown
Cut. I don't see anything remotely evil in it.
The entries aren't too long, and apparently six is the accepted minimum, so just dump them in the tabletop games section.
Though I gotta say, it would be cool if a work went from having no listed CM's to having a whole page of them in under a week.
That would be kinda funny, a lot of pages started small and became much bigger over time (Star Trek, Arrow Universe).
Yeah, I agree, cut that quote.
An easy yes to Craddock and Tian Hi.
Wild Child
There's an odd line in Sabretooth's entry for X Men.
"Sabretooth kidnaps the members of village while Wolverine and straps bombs to them in order to draw Wolverine out and force him to fight."
Why so serious?
Yeah I think I know how to fix that.
""Sabretooth kidnaps the members of village while Wolverine is distracted and straps bombs to them in order to draw Wolverine out and force him to fight."
There you go, 2 words and it makes more sense.
"members of the village"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Since the new rule seems to be 5 for franchises, 6 for works, do we wanna merge Dance In The Vampire Bund, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and maybe even Rurouni Kenshin with the main AniManga page (and film as well in the case of the latter)?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I don't think that is necessary
Hey guys, it is me again with another candidate this time from the anime series Blue Exorcist the candidate in question is Ernst Frederik Egin.
Who Is He? What Has He Done
Ernst Frederik Egin is a villain exclusively for the anime whose horrible deeds have began the plot for the series at least for the anime.
Long ago he was an overtly zealous and xenophobic member of the Grigori who usually send his men to kill and slaughter any demon or anyone who remotely associated with them as they can wether they are guilty or innocent all to satisfy his his own ego and ideals.
Then one day his daughter Yuri befriended Satan and was pregnant with his children Ernst demanded that she have an abortion and when she refused he had her put on stake to be burned to death and it is shown that he has done this to many women who have bore satans children. He even has a public spectacle of the event and when Satan comes to rescue her, Ernst leaves all of people to die by Satan's wrath with Ernst barley surviving. He then has his men track down Yuri to kill her, but Satan's rescue for Yuri was not enough for her to survive as she later dies from her wounds caused by the Ernst after giving birth to her children Rin and Yukio.
He would later meet one of his grandchildren, Yukio, where he use his superficial charm to persuade him to his side. He also had the entire Grigori leadership killed so he could usurp their position with only Mephisto, Shura, and Arthur surviving. After taking the leadership, he gives all the True Cross Academy students weapon and forces them to combat the demons completely uncaring on wether or not they die.
It is also revealed that he has built a ultra nuclear bomb called the Messiah so he can drop it at Gehenna so he could kill every last demon, again innocent or not. However in order to do so, he needs to open the Gehanna Gate, so he send Yukio to track down Rin and bring to him with the promise that he will spare Rin. When Yukio hand Rin to him, he reveals that he lied and that Rin as the spawn of Satan will die a slow and torturous death to open the Gehana gate. When Yukio finds that out and offers to take Rin's place for the ritual, Ernst gladly accepts and watches gleefully at Yukio's suffering, while still planning to have Rin killed after he drop his bomb to Gahena.
However, the bomb failed and Satan reveals to Yukio the atrocities Ernst has committed. Yukio then confronts Ernst on he could done such a horrible thing to is own daughter, only for him to retort that by giving herself to Satan, she and her children are disgraces to his eyes and should all have just died before dying himself.
Freudian Excuse
None. We don't know why he joined the Grigori other than sheer racism, xenophobia, self righteousness, and glory and the burns he had suffered were caused by his own xenophobic actions.
Redeeming Qualities
He might have started out as a Well-Intentioned Extremist, but threw that as well as any other possible redeeming quality straight out of the window when he let his Xenophobia against demons and his thirst for glory and recognition all but consumes him. He shows no remorse or regret in killing Yuri his own daughter, and later trying to kill his own grandchildren and watches their suffering with glee, showing that he has no love for his family members at all and is absolutely willing to sacrifice them just to fuel his own adgenda. In the end he is just a racist, xenophobic, egocentric, cowardly, and delusional excuse of a human being who sacrifice all those he see family members included, all so he could fuel his own agenda.
Heinousness
To Summarize, he kill demons and their associates regardless if they are innocent killed left and right, tries to burn his own daughter on a stake just because she is pregnant with a demons children, abandons innocent people to their doom just to save his own ass, kill most of the Grigori leader when they don't agree with his radical methods, build a giant nuclear weapon to drop to an entire world, hands children weapon to fight demon uncaring if they die, and tortures his own grandchildren just to open a gate with his actions managing to disgust Satan himself, I say he is up there with Dr. Gedouin in terms of heinousness and is overall, the Blue Exorcist equivalent of Judge Claude Frollo.
Final Verdict
I would give him a . What about you guys?
edited 22nd Oct '16 9:00:26 PM by G-Editor
