Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I see.

Like Lore pointed out, the destruction of House Devir isn't really that bad by Drow standards. Drow slaughter one another's houses whenever they get the chance and Matron Baenre even points out that the act merits applause should it be true because the destruction was so thorough.

Here's my issue with Malice...

She's awful, completely evil, etc. but as far as Drow matron mothers go, is she a standout like Yvonnel Baenre? I'm less sure. Almost every matron mother is an abusive monster to their kids, especially to their sons. Zeerith Q'Xorlarrin flat out raped her own comatose son to have a new child and she's one of the more level-headed Matrons.

Malice, then.

"Zeerith Q'Xorlarrin flat out raped her own comatose son to have a new child and she's one of the more level-headed Matrons."
Jebus...

Well, in that case? Easy no to Malice. I'm anticipating the other Drizzt posts, though.

"Zeerith Q'Xorlarrin flat out raped her own comatose son to have a new child and she's one of the more level-headed Matrons."

Why does that not sound right?

Eh. Kinda leaning towards now for Malice.

Yes, Always Chaotic Evil is a bit of a disqualifying factor, despite the protagonist being a notorious exception to that rule.

In Drow society, males have next to zero rights whatsoever. They can be abused, sacrificed or disposed of at a whim. Zaknafein lasted as long as he did with Malice only because she thought he was incredible in bed and because his fighting skills were nigh unmatched. There's only a few males powerful enough to avert of this and you can probably count them on one hand.

As far as the Always Chaotic Evil status of the Drow...not exactly...there are a number of things showing even the Lolth-following Drow are fully capable of care for others or standards. Followers of other drow deities also have a less...skewed system of morality. Still, you don't get to be a Matron Mother by being soft. The only issue I have is if Malice surpasses her fellow matrons in heinousness and that's a tougher sell. K'yorl Oblodra, for one, the Matron of the former third House, hideously abused her eldest daughter with psychic torture until she was an empty shell of a Drow. And cut out her consort's tongue because he talked too much once.

edited 21st Oct '16 7:21:23 AM by Lightysnake

I want propose Eliza from Skullgirls, but I see she somewhat was discussed on these pages (see below), but I don’t think she was properly and comprehensively effortposted.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1249

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1252

Should I go ahead and do it, or we've been through this already?

edited 21st Oct '16 7:38:40 AM by erazor0707

If you have points that refute the reasons why she didn't make the cut for a CM, go for it.

So, I just launched Literature.Savage. CM entry for Whittle to come tomorrow morning I hope. He's quite a character; I think I would've preferred more of him and less of Trevor's story.

I think it's perfectly fair to say Malice doesn't quite cut it compared to other Drow Matron Mothers, since if we counted them all we'd be here all day, but I do think she outdoes Vendes in heinousness. Just one thing we see her sister Quenthel Baenre do is shatter the mind of the elf Dahlia Sinfelle, force her to see her best friends as her enemies such as her childhood rapists, and uses her as a pawn to put as the Matron Mother of the revitalized House Do'Urden where she is repeatedly raped by her underlings. One Matron Mother well known for turning males into Driders captures one of Jarlaxle's scouts, forces him to entrap Jarlaxle under pain of becoming a Drider, and turns him into one anyway using the suffering of the transformation to keep him loyal. In fact, one of the male Baenres, Tiago Baenre, slaughters a town of thousands, hunts a knight through a game of cat and mouse mutilating him along the way, and, as it finally seems like he will let the knight go, he orders his dragon to swallow the man whole to let him suffer the digestion. All Vendes does in her sole appearance is to do some relatively mild torture on Drizzt before he escapes and kills her. The part about her turning Drow males into statues is also Offscreen Villainy and never actually seen. If Malice is deemed not to be heinous enough, Vendes certainly isn't.

edited 21st Oct '16 7:59:35 AM by LoreDeluxe

I'm fine with cutting vendes if need be, but I should note that we see the result of Vendes' actions as we see those agonized statues....which is noted to be especially cruel, even for Drow

My point is that the Drow get much worse in later books, and that Vendes is small fry compared to not only other Drow but the candidates we already have listed. In fact, the only reason I'm proposing the characters that I will is because I think they match or surpass Vendes in evil. Malice binds Drizzt's dead fathers mind and soul into his own corpse and forces that corpse to hunt down and murder his beloved son, and the fact that he eventually breaks free long enough to commit suicide proves that he was fully conscious the whole time. That strikes me as being beyond the standard evil for Drow and far beyond what we see Vendes do.

I'll grant that. I think Tiago is a better candidate, myself.

Tiago will be one of my proposals, but he was genuinely upset when Errtu killed his lizard mount Byok.

Well, yes. Because those are prized possession and status symbols. Especially for a Baere.

I'll have to re-read the chapter, but from what I remember he was really pissed off. He immediately threw off all thoughts of allying with Errtu to find Drizzt to avenge his mount instead. That goes beyond merely thinking of Byok as a possession and would be a disqualifier if that's the case.

So, it's the 21st. The following works are now up for discussion:

• The Birth of a Nation (2016)
• Phantasm: Ravager:
• Mafia III:
• Paper Mario: Color Splash

As the one handling discussion on the first, nobody counts in Birth of a Nation. There's a dozen nasty characters and a dozen horrible actions as true of the time period, but no one character stands out enough to count for the trope, so nothing to talk about there. I should also think it goes without saying nobody counts in Color Splash either, as that's still very much a Lighter and Softer entry into the Paper Mario series that decidedly skimps on story.

I'm interested in Phantom: Ravager, though. Any new crimes for the Tall Man?

edited 21st Oct '16 9:48:51 AM by Scraggle

For Tiago and Byok, Tiago likens the relationship to a wizard and familiar and he's genuinely pissed by Byok dying. The issue is...to drow, lizard mounts are status symbols and dear pets, but not something you love. They're seen as extensions of the master, and the narrative refers to Byok as his 'prized pet.'

Anyways...for Ravager...yes, but it answers no new questions about the Tall Man. OE has Mafia III reserved as well.

Although, considering Paper Mario gave us Dimentio...(though if it is indeed Lighter and Softer).
Lighty, anything worth adding to Tall Man's entry?

Yes. That was before the depth of the universe completely decayed come Sticker Star and the series just became a bland reflection of the mostly-storyless main series.

It's revealed the Tall Man is...well, apparently he exists on all forms of reality at once and destroying one means nothing since he'll always return. We do see in at least one reality and probably many more, he's annihilated entire worlds and turned them into apocalyptic hellholes.

That seems like it may be worth adding (although it does raise questions as well).