During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mikey. Seems to go too far for his Freudian Excuse to apply.
I'm honestly not sure on Mikey, while his Freudian Excuse doesn't justify what he does, my main concern is over the fish. Telling something your always look after it, doesn't sound possessive. As such I'm not sure if he's 100% evil or 98.5%.
edited 5th May '16 4:32:00 PM by MGD107
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Though later on, he does not bat an eye when he accidentally smashes another fish tank (though the fish were different).
Yeah I was thinking about proposing Mikey too but I don't know his Freudian Excuse seems a bit genuine and I think we should take into account that he's a nine year old child, sure he's an intelligent manipulator but he overall seems to have a childlike mentality. He kills his family when he feels they stop loving him and while his perception of love is skewed it seems kind of genuine from someone of his age's perspective. That, and his Pet the Dog moments with his fish make me lean toward a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
I feel like we are lowering our standards for this trope a bit too much if we up vote him. He's a very nasty case of Enfant Terrible sure, but I think calling him a CM is going a bit too far.
edited 5th May '16 5:05:14 PM by username2527
Yeah I remember, still that doesn't outright disprove he cared for the other fish. I mean the guys clearly deranged, people like that often have standards that make no sense to anyone else. But unless its hypocritical or contradictory, its still a standard.
edited 5th May '16 5:05:56 PM by MGD107
Concurred; the only thing you care about being a single tank of fish is pretty weak, but it is a redeeming quality for the purposes of this trope. Mikey.
edited 5th May '16 5:13:39 PM by nrjxll
to Mikey for the time being
Mikey.
edited 5th May '16 8:08:55 PM by superboy313
After reconsidering, Mikey.
Wild Child
The above arguments just confirms my hesitations. Mikey.
I'm going to see if the slave driver counts he is from this game
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TearsToTiara2
from the game tears to tiara2 we have the slave driver.
Who is he ? now their are more then one slave driver in the game that have the same name and
looks but they are different then the slave driver they even have more resources then the slave driver and all they did was try to kill two people.
the pie piper also have more resources but in the end he only cross the meh once. Melqart
does nothing then just rant about stuff and is not even a treat Izebel and Laelius have a ship that is so strong that it can destroy a fallen moon and have a entire army and they,
don't even do much other then attacking the main characters. and all ways losing to them and all of the other villains have more resources then the slave driver.
and the only other villains in the game that could count as a cm are the fake priest that can turn into a spider monster, death, Zaras and I think I might be forgetting one more but any way all of their crimes are different and they all have different resources. the only resources that the slave driver have are a tent and that one drug that he drug's Artio with.
What does he do ?: he first appears pretending to be a merchant that to trick people into going into debt so he can kidnap then and sell them, when Artio calls him out on the stuff he is doing he manipulate Saul and his men to attack Hamilcar and his group witch also includes a little kid that looks to be about 8,a elderly man,Saul friend Artio,and some of the other main characters, Tarte,Kleito,Dion and Enneads. he then leaves them to fight in a place were innocent people are at risk of getting hurt or dying. later that night he kidnaps Artio and decide to sell her as a slave,
the next day a war brake's out meaning now their are two wars going on at the same time, and when Hamilcar meats the slave driver face to face he said that the reason why he kidnaped Artio was to start a other war so he can take the dead bodies of the people that dies in the war and sell them, he also starts gloating about how all of the slaves he sold gets melted down while they are still alive and turn into mindless war weapons he then drugs Artio, and forces her to kill her friends the slave driver is then later killed by the main characters. Freudian Excuse he does not have one.
Redeeming Traits: Nope he has non, he has two man but they are not seen all that much and he
is willing to put them at risk of dying in two wars one of witch he try's to start.
I thinks he counts any way I'm going to bed good night
edited 5th May '16 7:02:14 PM by Luigi_king
to the slave driver...I think?
Luigi king, I don't want to be insulting, but if you're going to keep participating in this thread you really ought to visit the Get Help With English thread as well.
I concur with
A total has-been.
This is part of why I suggested not giving any post by luigi_king any mind. I didn't want to sound like I was discriminating, but...yeah, I cannot make out any coherency in the posts, they're so grammatically wrong.
edited 5th May '16 7:19:25 PM by ANewMan
Messenger from another dimension.
Where are are you from Luigi_king? Also, maybe we can help with his English?
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
I wanted to briefly talk Crossbones/Rumlow's role in Winter Soldier before Civil War comes out. I know we can't discuss him in that until 5/20, but what's everybody's thoughts on him as it is though?
Not to discuss him at all for the time being.
I would like to have Amanuma Shinich of Mekko Rarekko to be reconsidered as a candidate as a Complete Monster. Also the series has just recently ended so if you wanted to see for yourself just check U18chan where the last volume was recently posted.
Anyways.......
Who is he? What has he done?
In elementary School, Amanuma Shinichi was a top student who was great in class. He was great at sports, he had some of the grades he was handsome and his parents were rich. According to him, he was basically in a different class than everyone else, especially Taishou, one of his classmates and basically a polar opposite of him. Taishou was an average student in elementary and he was chubby, unlike Amanuma. But he looked up to him because he thought Amanuma was very cool. But as stated, Amanuma thought that he was better than just about everyone in his school, especially Taishou since he was so different. Because of that Amanuma and a group of kids probably his followers enjoyed bullying and torturing Taishou and making his life hell. Eventually it got so bad that Taishou had to transfer to a new school.
After elementary, Amanuma got into a top middle school that at first he didn't think much of. It was mainly because he thought that since he was already an awesome student in elementary that middle school would be easy as well. He felt that his life was great and that it would always be great. But when he got into middle school, he saw that he wasn't as special as he thought he was. He had average grades in school and he struggled to keep getting better, but he wasn't able to and he was angry that he wasn't seen as someone special in middle school. After ratting out to a student once, some of the students get back at him by burning the word pig onto his stomach. He eventually became a Hikkikomori and he stayed in his room for long periods of time.
He soon began to develop hatred to those around him, because he started off as a awesome student, but he realized in middle school that he saw himself as a failure. He felt that everyone had an ugly side to them that they won't show others. He even thought that his own parents were mocking him for being such a failure. When he transferred to Taishou's school and class, he was surprised to see that he turned out to be an average student and that's mainly because he felt that all the bullying that happened to him during first grade would have made Taishou a lot worse instead of your everyday student. When he pretended to be his friend again, the reality is that he began to bully and torture him again, just like he had originally done in first grade. Made even worse because this time he more or less makes Taishou his sex slave. He even shows this to Buchi who is Taishou's only other friend and he is more or less shocked when he sees what's happened to him.
Then in the seventh volume, he convinces Buchi, Taishou's friend whose also an Extreme Doormat and only other friend that he's not as different as he is. Mainly because Buchi was also bullied a bit in elementary as well, just like Taishou was. He tells Buchi to rape him which he does and he makes Buchi into his sex slave as well. Did we also mention that he's blackmailing them with a video of them having sex before? He plans on releasing it to the world if they don't keep doing what he says to do. He is also shown to be physically torturing them as well by whipping them if they don't cum quick enough. He is even seen injecting something into both of them which is possibly something to make sure that they still have cum, for it's never revealed what it is and they have to do what he days or else he will reveal their secret to everyone.
Later on in another similar scenes, he says that he might still release the video because he's not getting enough of a reaction from Taishou. Taishou of course begs him not to release it and even though he still won't release it, all Amanuma does is laugh at Taishou begging at him calling him pathetic stating that he fears getting caught so much that he has no choice but to do what he says. Eventually Buchi can't stand the torturing anymore and he tackes Amanuma knocking him down from a high seat and Buchi stomps on his smartphone and he destroys it. Amanuma tells him that it doesn't change anything and that he still has backups of the video probably on his computer and that he will end their normal school lives. Then Buchi and Taishou see the word pig burned onto his stomach from what he had gotten from his top middle school. He immediately hid it because he hated what had happened to him then and he had a bit of a villainous breakdown.
When Amanuma saw Buchi and Taishou after his breakdown, he started to think that they saw him as the same as them which he didn't want to accept. He then proceeds to attempt to stab Buchi with a pair of scissors telling that You pigs will know where you stand!! Taishou stops him from stabbing Buchi by breaking free from his handcuffs and he tosses him across the storeroom.
Despite seemingly losing, Amanuma tells them that they are stupid for what they did and that they will have to accept that they are just filthy pigs. It looks like things are going to well for Buchi and Taishou but it is revealed shortly after that Amanuma managed to stab Taishou with the pair of scissors in the side and that he is seriously wounded. We learn that Amanuma transferred away to a new school to live with some of his relatives (but not his parents) but we learn that Amanuma kept good on his threat and that he released the video of Buchi and Taishou having sex and that it even made news. Buchi and Taishou were shamed by the school and everyone knows that both of them are gay.
Mitigating factors/Freudian Excuse?
As noted above, he thought that he would be a special student in middle school because he felt that he was such an awesome student in elementary. But he saw that he wasn't a special student and that he was just an average student in that middle school. When he ratted out a student to a teacher he thought it was the right thing to do, but a group of students tortured him for what he had done and he dropped out of the top middle school and became a Hikikomori for a while.
Heinous Standard
Because of his bad experience in his top middle school, he developed hatred and jealousy of everyone that he ever knew and he believed that everyone was mocking him for feeling that he was such a failure. As noted above, he was already a Jerkass in elementary towards Taishou and he bullied and tortured him a lot and this was before he developed hatred for everyone around him. As noted above, after he transferred to Taishou's and Buchi's school he wanted to make Taishou's life hell as well, along with Buchi later on. After his villainous breakdown, Buchi and Taishou start to leave Amanuma where he is and they begin to leave the storeroom as well. But Amanuma notices a pair of scissors near him and he starts to develop hatred for Buchi and Taishou as well for standing up against him. Becoming even more mad, he lashes out towards Buchi, determined to stab him the scissors and even kill him. Even though Taishou managed to stop him from stabbing Buchi, Amanuma managed to stab Taishou instead and he is seriously wounded because of it. And even when he has to transfer to another school, he publicly shames them by releasing the video of Buchi and Taishou having sex and any reputation they had in school is shattered and Buchi feels horrible about it
Conclusion
I still believe that Amanuma Shinichi should qualify as a complete monster. Yes the one hand Amanuma isn't like most of the other complete monsters and he hasn't killed anyone, But on the other hand, even if he hasn't killed anyone or anything like that, there is no denying that Amanuma Shinichi is not a very nice person at all and he loves to bully and torture people that are lower than he is.
If you want to see proof of how nasty he was before he was tortured than just look here
◊ here
◊ here
◊ and here
◊
He was a cruel kid towards Taishou and a monster towards him and Buchi as a teen when he transfers to their school. And he stabs Taishou with a pair of scissors and Taishou is seriously wounded because of it. As far as I can tell, Amanuma Shinichi should definitely qualify as a complete monster. He might not be a killing type, but he does stab Taishou and he is seriously wounded and he almost died because of him. Thank you very much for viewing this and tell me your opinion.
edited 5th May '16 8:09:01 PM by inuyasharules31
It doesn't matter if you want to be useful to someone. There's no such thing as a life worth throwing away!
Given the fish factor, I'm changing my Mikey vote to .
Abstaining on Amanuma for now. Unsure if he meets the baseline standard.
edited 5th May '16 10:30:03 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
to Mikey.
On Amanuma... Reading the effortpost, what the hell demographic is this aiming for? Anyhow, not really convinced Amanuma is heinous enough, and even then his Freudian Excuse gives me serious pause. to Amanuma.
edited 5th May '16 10:52:19 PM by Scraggle
If it weren't for the fact that TV Tropes doesn't allow people to post pictures that are NSFW, I would post the pictures to show just how heinous Amanuma Shinichi really is but I know all too well that I can't. Mekko Rarekko just happens to be a NSFW adult Gay Kemono Doujinshi, but it's also a rare case of Porn with Plot as well with a rather interesting one at that. But I would still encourage anyone who would like to, to read the final three chapters just to see what I mean about how heinous I think he is. Again as I said before U18chan is a place to view the three chapters. It's under the Gay Furries Comic section if there is anyone who wants to see how dark Amanuma really is.
edited 5th May '16 11:00:18 PM by inuyasharules31
It doesn't matter if you want to be useful to someone. There's no such thing as a life worth throwing away!
I'm not entirely sure on Mikey, but I'm leaning towards![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
. Killing your entire family because your mother slapped you for setting something on fire is bullshit. Even if his previous family was abusive, I don't feel like that's a good enough reason for killing all the people he kills, let alone filming it.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.