During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Game!Ramsay.
For the MCU page when the time comes, I realized that so many of Garrett's quotes can be used.
Maybe his entry, come to think of it, should say something like: "While Garrett did intend to let Fitz live at first, it would only be to enslave him in HYDRA for his skills when he couldn't get him to willingly cooperate."
edited 1st Dec '15 7:52:24 AM by futuremoviewriter
A total has-been.
I doubt there is any incarnation of Ramsay Snow who is NOT a .
to Game Ramsey.
Caesar
to Game!Ramsay
Abstaining on Galavan. While there is really nothing keeping him from counting, I just don't feel like he stood out as much as Jerome did to count. Regardless, I'm not giving him a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
, so it's all good.
Game!Ramsay and Galavan.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm tempted to switch to an abstain on Galavan myself. The fact that he let Jerome loose though is a big mark in his favor (even if Jerome did some stuff of his own volition).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well Jerome's own Ax Craxy-ness was part of Galavan's plan aswell. Here's how it went, when Galavan formed the Maniax, it was to spread fear and chaos, and Jerome was all to eager to go proto-Joker on the city, which is why Galavan picked Jerome as the acting leader of the Maniax. And yes, Galavan does have them doing jobs for him at first, and then he offs Jerome to make himself look like a hero. There's a reason why I say Theo and Jerome share blood on eachother's hands.
Oh and to Game!Ramsay. So I guess he's pretty much one of many villains to end up being CM's, Joker, Red Skull, Palpatine...
edited 1st Dec '15 10:21:55 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So Galavan KNEW about Jerome's psychotic tendencies, but welcomed them? So then why'd he kill him? To position himself as a hero? I'll go back to a then.
Okay, it's been a while.
I also have one from a series that leaves more questions than solid answers... but I've put quite a bit of thought into it.
Well, here goes.
Five Nights At Freddys: While very little of the events surrounding this series are presented with any clarity, what we know of the Killer presents him as the one true evil of the setting. A Serial Killer who targets children, he gets close to his victims via his employment at a children's restaurant, luring them into a back room while dressed as a lovable mascot, before murdering them and hiding the bodies. He has killed between five and eleven children, and shows a total lack of remorse for his actions; even worse is that he seems to casually enjoy murder. He commits his acts of evil on a whim, without fear of consequences, and with an enormous grin plastered on his face.
Fingers crossed!
- That's not how we propose examples.
- The Purple Guy from FNAF has already been discussed and voted down on for a lack of characterization of, and general lack of information on, himself.
ACW: Yup, to both. Galavan wasn't initially a hands on villain, and needed a front man to lead the Maniax on his behalf, he decided Jerome fit the bill, and Jerome was more then happy to cause chaos. What Jerome didn't know was that his usefulness had an expiry date.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
to Ramsay (natch) and Galavan.
As far as the potential Karma Houdinis in Game of Thrones (or A Song of Ice and Fire, for that matter), it's not gonna happen. Book!Ramsay is gonna have folks lining up to shank his ass by the time the next book comes around, and Show!Ramsay's fortunes are unlikely to be brighter. Gregor is already a twisted, undead Frankenstein's monster, and I doubt that'll be the end of his misfortunes. Look at what became of Joffrey, Craster, and, in the books, Vargo Hoat. Much as GRRM loves tearing out our hearts, he gives the worst of the worst what they deserve. Ramsay'll get his. Frey too. Just give it time.
This might sound like a silly question, but I like to be certain about the villains listed here but, does tipping a waitress and getting offended by another person refusing to do so disqualifies a villain? If so, Mr. Blonde needs to be cut.
Lost in Space
Well, one CM on our approved list expresses disgust towards child molesters, so just because they have some standards, it doesn't automatically disqualify them.
edited 1st Dec '15 4:32:01 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Actually that one would be disqualifying, I think. Who is it?
Lost in Space
John Dread, from Otherland. I fail to see how that disqualifies him, though, as it's as close to hypocritical as a sociopathic serial killer can get. Never mind that we don't encounter any child molester villains in the story.
edited 1st Dec '15 4:41:50 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I'm not sure Mr. Blonde was offended by Mr. Pink refusing to tip a waitress so much as confused about why he wouldn't. Anyway, I'd argue that what he does later obliterates any redemptive value the tipping scene might have given Mr. Blonde.
I should also note Dread isn't all "Oh, those poor kids!" He's disgusted by it on a level that's not really a sign of goodness in him.
Lost in Space
Yes, Dread views them as pathetic for going after helpless victims. He doesn't give a damn about the kids. Oh, and there's also some redirected anger from being a victim of molestation himself.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
to both Galavan and Game!Ramsay
Isn't Game!Ramsay and Show!Ramsay one in the same since the game takes place in the TV show's setting?
@ Fighteer: Could Dread's being molested as a child be a Freudian Excuse?
jjj
Absolutely not. That's utterly tangential to his crimes.
A total has-been.
Dread's molestation as a child seems to be a backstory detail meant to explain why his mind and soul got so twisted but not give justification to anything he chose to do in the story. These are the kind of backstories Complete Monsters tend to get (Lotso getting left behind and then replaced by his owner, OUAT!Jafar getting nearly drowned by his father as a child, Commodus' Daddy Issues, etc.) - explains why they are who they are without excusing or even beginning to sufficiently explain or justify what they do.
edited 1st Dec '15 6:15:08 PM by ANewMan
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Please add to the YMMV page and I'll tweak it this weekend.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts