Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Meanwhile, it seems like even Fraudrin kept his word:

• You Will Be Spared: He allows Hendrickson to live after the latter unwittingly unseals Fraudrin's brethren rather than offing him. This is because Dreyfus allowed him to possess his body only under the condition that he would never harm Hendrickson.

I think Tommyrod has to go now anyways. As of right now, Joa/Joie is part of a Big Bad Ensemble with a group called The Gourmet Nobles and possibly the legendary Gourmet hunter Acacia.

Joie is definitely the most visible of the big bads

Fraudrin could also have been shaken by Dreyfus's vow that if Fraudrin ever harmed Hendrickson, Dreyfus would find a way to kill him.

As for Bleach? Well, it's just a formality to add Yhwach now.

edited 30th Aug '15 12:55:06 PM by Lightysnake

Shall we get a current effortpost for Joia so we can cut Tommyrod?
Unless Yhwach guess some Ass Pull redemption like Cancer Deathmask.

edited 30th Aug '15 12:56:12 PM by ACW

Did Saruman have any redeeming qualities after his face-heel turn? As for moral agency, I don't understand how that could be an problem. The real issue is whether or not all of his on-screen actions in Lord of the Rings Online are enough to push him over the line into Complete Monster territory. Just one memorable thing he did in the game is have a Dunlanding man and his young son sent to Isengard to be tortured and enslaved for having the audacity to try to outbid him at a food auction (which Saruman was repeatedly bidding the minimum amount possible for).

edited 30th Aug '15 12:58:13 PM by LoreDeluxe

We already knew how terrible Saruman was. It doesn't change that his story ends up as ultimately a tragedy: corrupted by Sauron into forgetting good intention and no matter what he does, Sauron will be ridiculously worse than him.

I think if Saruman does on screen evil stuff in the game then he could qualify for the purposes of the game.

I don't think he does enough on screen in the movies and in the books, he's sort of pitied by the heroes at the end (not that he appreciates it).

for Big Madam.

Any more for Cesaire ?

Also, as long as we're talking quotes, I have a proposal for the TV page. This is from Teen Wolf's Gerard Argent.

"Scott, can you hear me? Ah, you can. Good. Then listen closely because the game is about to get interesting. Let's put a real clock on this game, Scott. I'll give you until the last 30 seconds. When that scoreboard clock begins counting down from 30, if you haven't given me Derek, then Jackson is gonna kill someone. So tell me, Scott, who's gonna die tonight? Should it be your mother, who so bravely came out to support you? Or the sheriff, your best friend's father? Or how about the pretty little redhead who managed to survive the bite of an Alpha? Or maybe one of these innocent teenagers with their whole life ahead of them? Or should I do everyone a favor and kill that ridiculous coach? It's up to you, Scott. But you are going to help me take Derek down. Because if you don't - I'll have Jackson rip someone's head off right in the middle of the field and drench everyone you love and care about in blood."

edited 30th Aug '15 1:06:44 PM by Beast

The books also seriously bring Saruman's moral agency into question, as although book!Saruman is initially presented as much more independent of Sauron than his movie counterpart, as things go on several characters (and the narration!) point out that he was much more strongly under Sauron's thumb than he realized. Gandalf describes him as "the spider in the steel web" and "the hawk beneath the eagle's foot" in reference to his initial contact with Sauron via his palantir, Frodo later says that Saruman was always doing Mordor's work even when he thought he was working for himself, and the narration itself explicitly says that most of Saruman's schemes and devices, which he believed came from his own mind, were actually just lesser copies of things that Sauron had already done and that Isengard itself was ultimately nothing but a pale imitation of Barad-dur. I've never played LOTRO, but from what I've read it's supposed to be roughly in-continuity with the books (not the movies) and so I think this should all be taken into consideration.

Both the book and the movie version of Saruman had a serious case of Orcus on His Throne and didn't really do all that much directly. LOTRO adds a lot to his rap sheet and shows just how evil and sadistic he became. Whether or not it is enough to push him over into the trope is something that will have to be answered in the inevitable effort post. I'll likely get started once I do the write-up for Lheu Brenin.

Alright. Scraggle and Lightysnake are for Petrie. Two more votes and I'll post the write up.

Definitely for Big Madam. In a series with many vile characters, she is perhaps the most vile of all.

She's a human trafficker, torturer, and pedophile. I think that part is worth focusing on and taking into consideration, since Juuzou was still very young while in her "care". In the one scene indicating sexual abuse, we see her fingering Juuzou's mouth while talking about how pretty her "Rei-chan" is and then reaching down to grope his genitals beneath his dress prior to taking a hammer to them.

There are other villains with sexual aspects, but no other instances of pedophilia in the series.

I should also note that Big Madam gleefully praises Juuzo for being a good boy, she awards him 'good boy' points, in a way that seems affectionate, only to turn creepy as she says "Let's start the 'good boy' time..." and the next panel is him suspended from fishhooks n his back. Either 'good boy time' is her molesting him, or her torturing him, but either way?

^ Exactly. (shudder)

I'm on the fence with Rize. While she gets some sympathy from characters, it's mostly Kaneki having a rather unhealthy attachment/obsession with her. Otherwise, she's an absolutely horrible and selfish person — she kind of deconstructs the Manic Pixie Dream Girl, since she breezes in and challenges a status quo, but it's entirely because she's bored and doesn't care about anyone but herself. She pretty much makes ruining lives and leaving disaster in her wake into an art form. There's a side story in one of the novels about her, with the Nice Guy blindly in love with her trying to clear her name when she's accused of a killing so brutal it makes other Ghouls sick.

....only she did do it. For the lulz. Because it would piss off another Ghoul. She even admits that part-way through the killing, she decided the "sea air" ruined her appetite, so she just yanked out the girl's entrails and played with them for fun.

Rize is selfish, destructive, possessed of an utterly fake charm, and utterly lacking in an ounce of empathy. It should be noted that Ghouls live in constant risk of organized genocide by human authorities, and her actions increase the risk of an entire Ward being wiped out. Which she thinks is funny and not her problem.

@ACW

This post has the Darkrai write-up. You didn't mention it when posting in the Locked Pages thread.

That'll go with next week's batch.
Big Momma's a PEDOPHILE too??? Good lord.

The quote page seems to be decaying into a list of quotes about CMs as opposed to quotes that emphasis their stand-out heinousness. Given this seems to be a fast growing list, I think we should have some kind of editorship process. Any thoughts?

Personally, I'm fine keeping it the way it is, but that's just me.

Do you guys think the villain from Yugioh Bonds Before Time might count? They tried to destroy time and create paradoxes, along with plenty of attempted murders. I don't know if it has an excuse for its actions but I don't remember it having any sad backstory, tragic death or anything.

PS: I've only seen the movie through Little Kuriboh so I beg your pardon if there's something I'm missing.

edited 31st Aug '15 2:03:39 AM by Klavice

So, the Criminal Minds stuff is now done (and will be swapped Thursday), but I'm wondering if J.B. Allen is bad enough. There are other child killers and rapists, and, if this is anything to go by, we may not know for sure how many other victims he may have had.

Really don't want to sound pushy, but I still only have one to Cesaire. Here's a quick rundown of what he does in the film.

He's a werewolf who terrorized a village for twenty years, who broke a truece with a village by murdering his so called daughter, upon finding out she's not his.

He plans on leaving the village to make a new hunting ground in a city, and plans on turning his daughter Valerie into a werewolf and taking her against her will. As far as redeeming qualities go, he see's Valerie as a possession, and murdered her sister without a second thought.

When Valerie refuses, he threatens to kills off the rest of the village until she agrees, and later butchers his own mother, makes her body into soup and feeds it to his unwitting daughter.

Cesaire.

Cesaire, sure.

Paradox from the Yu-Gi-Oh! Tenth Anniversary Movie doesn't count. He's one of 4 Well Intentioned Extremists trying to save the future from the apocalypse caused by the Machine Emperors' invasion.

edited 31st Aug '15 6:39:04 AM by VeryMelon

to Cesaire and Big Madam

edited 31st Aug '15 7:10:08 AM by Ravok

For the record, that's 5 on Petrie now (including me). Two more votes please.