Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

@Klavice: Please no more on the "Darkrai is just a GDV" stuff? This matter has been settled already.

Any more for Sedessa? Personally I still don't see what pushes her from "complete bitch" to "Complete Monster".

I might actually do a write-up for the Lord of the Rings Online version of Saruman. The MMO follows the book storyline but the player actually sees the direct impact of Saruman's crimes. These include horrific human experimentation, many mind rapes, and explicit examples of his tyranny over Dunland. There are even more examples I can think of to put in an effort post. Regardless, it would be quite interesting to see if everyone thinks this version of Saruman could count.

Not sure Saruman could ever qualify due to his backstory and the fact that Sauron eclipses every other evildoer in Middle Earth at the time, but I'll have to see his specific crimes and how the game portrays his characterization.

Well, I don't know about backstory (Saruman has a Freudian Excuse?), but as for Sauron, there's the matter of resources.

I think I may give a yeato Petrie and to Cesaire.

Sedessa I need to think on. She may JUST do enough

edited 30th Aug '15 11:47:16 AM by Lightysnake

Not much of a Freudian Excuse but there is a backstory behind him. You seen The Hobbit movies? He used to be a good guy.

For resources, it depends on if he's heinous enough with his own resources to match Sauron. If he's still eclipsed, then he can't really count.

I saw the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but not the Hobbit movies.

By the way, I see this character was already cut but I've found some closure on a character that we had some problems with a while back, Larry "The Woodsman" Moore from Law and Order SVU. I still haven't seen his episode, but I found its summary on the L&O Wiki and yes, as we suspected, The Woodsman is a Posthumous Character. The actual main antagonist of the episode is the FBI agent assigned to his case, and the big twist is that she'd already tracked down The Woodsman prior to the episode, and summarily executed him instead of arresting him.

edited 30th Aug '15 12:11:02 PM by HamburgerTime

Yeah, if I recall, I did research and not only was he posthumous, I don't think he even appeared in the episode.
BTW, I think I'll submit the Fallout and YuGiOh stuff Tuesday.

edited 30th Aug '15 12:17:42 PM by ACW

In no context can Saruman ever count unless it changes things immensely. Moral agency, heinous standard, redeeming qualities...it's a trifecta of disqualification.

Now, the other proposal of Tokyo Ghoul...Big Madam.

Now, some ghouls are solitary, operating only on their own in their hunting grounds. However, some ghouls are extremely powerful in influence, being very wealthy. As a result, some of these ghouls have formed underground societies consisting of a gourmet restaurant, human trafficking rings, etc. Now, I introduce you the head of one of those underground networks: Big Madam.

Side note: It is revealed that Big Madam's biological sex is male. It is unclear if Big Madam is a transvestite or transsexual. As the latter interpretation s likely, I'm going to use female pronouns from hereon.

Who IS She?

Big Madam is a wealthy, influential ghoul with a twisted personality, who heads a massive black market network. Big Madam's prime businesses consist of human auctions, and the 'Gourmet Restaurant' where luckless humans are lured in for dinner shows, butchered and fed to the ghouls in attendance.

Big Madam is an SS class ghoul as well, being an exceptionally powerful combatant who is cunning, ruthless and clever. Possibly her biggest contribution to the story is her being the surrogate parent of Juuzo Suzuya, the Ghoul investigator and hunter.

What Has She Done?

First, to discuss Juuzo: Juuzo was pretty young boy 'adopted' by Big Madam, who subjected him to hideous physical and mental abuse to condition him to feel no pain, including by suspending him with fish hooks in the skin of his back. Big Madam dressed Juuzo as a girl due to her love for how effeminate he was, and rather than see him grow up and become masculine, she castrated him with a hammer. Juuzo was used as a 'Scrapper' in the Ghoul Restaurant: when humans are brought in, the scrapper is the one to kill them and prepare them for the meals.

During an attack by the CCG, the Ghoul investigators, Juuzo was rescued and ended up trained as an investigator himself. Big Madam was not seen again until years later.

It is shown that Big Madam is attempting to purchase a new pet at the ghoul auctions, where humans are sold to ghouls for whatever purpose they desire: pets, servants, food, etc. Big Madam has one ghoul named Nutcracker go and gather humans for the auction

During the attack, Big Madam attempts to devour one investigator by swallowing him whole. Juuzo attacks the audience and Big Madam ends up outmatched and tries to escape. She appeals to Juuzo to save her, and asks if he hates her. Juuzo says he doesn't hate his 'mama', but it's just his job. Big Madam freaks out, screaming she never loved him and just kept him for his looks before she is finished off.

Juuzo's comrade covers his ears so he doesn't have to hear it, and Juuzo softly whispers "goodbye, father."

Heinous Standard?

One of the few to pass it. While Rize is a violent serial killer and hedonist, Big Madam is a torturer and human trafficker. The underground networks are very vast and the ghoul restaurant and auctions are utterly horrible, with humans lured in to be horrifically murdered before being eaten or enslaved to who knows what fates.

Her abuse of Juuzo via torture, castration and possibly sexual abuse is also just as bad. The other ghoul organizations we know of are the main villains of Aogiri Tree thus far, led by the One Eyed King, that seek anarchy and chaos, 'V', dedicated to preserving order and balance, and Pierrot, or The Clowns, who are hedonistic and chaotic for fun. V thus far hasn't really done much, and Aogiri Tree is...nasty, while the Pierrot are one of the worst, and one of their members is at the Auction. Big Madam is responsible for an extensive network on her own that gives a great deal of horror to a massive amount of people.

I mean, I do stress again Ghouls have to eat people. Making it into a dinner show and slave ring is another story entirely, particularly when you break the minds of poor humans to kill their own kind for amusement of patrons.

Redeeming Qualities

Faux Affably Evil at its finest. She is shown giving affection to Juuzo at times, but she's a classic abuser: dispensing and withholding affection to get the best result possible. When her death is inevitable, she flips out and screams she never loved him at all. Her actions, honestly, showcase that well enough.

I'd say Big Madam is an easy keep, with two more on the watch list, being one of the nastiest members of the Pierrot named Uta, and the human investigator Tokage Gomasa, the sadistic torturer. The human side of Tokyo Ghoul is hardly spotless...Aogiri Tree's probable leader has a very valid Freudian Excuse in her nature, the torturer Yamori for Aogiri Tree was driven insane by being tortured by Gomasa and adopted Gomasa's personality as his own and a ghoul serial killer posing as a priest seems to actually care for one of his charges who became an investigator himself. Another of the CCG's most sadistic investigators is only cruel towards ghouls (his wife was murdered by one) and is a loving father and good friend to his co-workers.

Dark world, but Big Madam's one of the worst in it.

edited 30th Aug '15 12:27:57 PM by Lightysnake

Big Madam.

Btw, HT, any further thoughts on the Teague issue?

Remind us who Teague is?

Villain from Cold Mountain I proposed a few pages back.

I can throw a Teague's way since you explained more about the reverend.

Big Madam.
Gomasa sounds psychotic.
Yamori and Aogiri's leader, if the character pages are accurate, seem to have mitigating Freudian Excuses (especially Yamori).

Yamori was a ghoul tortured by Gomasa to sheer insanity. He escaped, but his mind snapped and he adopted Gomasa's personality as his own. Yamori is a sadistic torturer, but I don't feel right proposing him with that. Gomasa is just awful, and we can even see Yamori adopted his mannerisms. In essence, Yamori was torn down and rebuilt Gomasa in his place. We can't list Yamori's crimes as entirely Gomasa's fault, but it's something to consider

The Aogiri Tree leader...well, being abandoned and left on her own as a half breed...has NOT done well for her mental stability

edited 30th Aug '15 12:41:28 PM by Lightysnake

Teague and Big Momma.

Yeah, Being Tortured Makes You Insane...But Gomasa...yeesh.
BTW, just out of curiosity, where do things stand with Toriko and The Seven Deadly Sins?

edited 30th Aug '15 12:42:08 PM by ACW

SDS has no one currently listed, I know that.

I found a quote that Damien Thorn made in Omen III: The Final Conflict that I was going to add to the Quotes page, though I'd like to see what you guys think about it:

• "Oh my Father, Lord of Silence, Supreme God of Desolation, though mankind reviles yet aches to embrace, strengthen my purpose to save the world from a second ordeal of Jesus Christ and his grubby mundane creed. Show man instead the raptures of Thy kingdom. Infuse in him the grandeur of melancholy, the divinity of loneliness, the purity of evil, the paradise of pain."

edited 30th Aug '15 12:49:06 PM by AustinDR

Yeah, because the one that was there was being manipulated...I was wondering if the true villain is on the watchlist.
Great quote.

As of right now, I think I know what Joa/Joie actually is and if I'm right, it wouldn't be a redeeming trait. Toriko is now moving at a rather brisk pace and the recent chapter has indicated Joie may be clashing with a major character very shortly.

Nanatsu...we're really in the middle of a big arc. None of the Ten Commandments are close to qualifying, but three are on the watchlist. Of the group thus far, there's Zeldris, Estarossa, Derrierie, Monspiet, Merascylla, Galan and Fraudrin.

Fraudrin is the one closest to qualifying, as he was responsible for all Hendrickson's crimes and the destruction of an entire kingdom. Of the others?

It's highly unlikely Galan, Monspiet and Derrierie will count and impossible that Zeldris will. Zeldris was in love with a member of the Vampire Clan and defied orders to kill them because of her. Galan is shown to demonstrate affection for another member of the team and Monspiet and Derrierie seem to have a close bond between them (and they seem the closest thing the Ten have to comedic relief).

Estarossa is the most laid back of the ten, but he has an immense dark side, and Merascylla sent out a bunch of demons to do soul gathering for the group. Thus far, it's wait and see for a while.

HT, anything I missed?

Is Joa/Joie the main villain? And I assume Tommyrod will have to go before too long?

Nope, not really.

edited 30th Aug '15 12:49:49 PM by HamburgerTime