During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
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No need for Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness 
. How about this one from Age Of Apocalypse?
edited 2nd Apr '15 1:32:46 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Maybe we should choose a quote that actually illustrates why the villain is an out-and-out monster and not just an evil speech which could just as well be listed under a different trope? My vote goes to Sabretooth. As for Vrak... I believe he was upvoted, but the writeup was never put up on the page for some reason.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to both Ox and Cletus. Low sounds like a yes.
edited 2nd Apr '15 3:20:48 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That Sabretooth quote that Morgenthaler had isn't 616 though.
As for Vrak, I think he may count.
edited 2nd Apr '15 3:41:36 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
We need to go through all those bad Harry Potter fanfics and possibly add all the instances of Ron being a Complete Monster which are quite often thanks to Ron The Death Eater. Or at least some of them. I've even seen some fics where Harry and Dumbledore are portrayed that way as well.
Also, are we going to give the Xenoseries it's own page? It's got three from Xenoblade and one from Xenogears which should be enough for a page.
Lost in Space
Dear gods, why? Couldn't we just ignore fics unless someone wants to add an example?
edited 2nd Apr '15 3:51:13 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I say see if the next Xeno game has any. Seconded. Actually, shouldn't that go for any work?
edited 2nd Apr '15 3:52:49 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well unless this example of Ron the Death Eater really, REALLY stands out and belongs to something that's actually well-written
Seriously, how come Ghetsis fails the heinous standard, and what would he have to have done to pass it?
X-Men isn't 616 only. Ultimate Magneto is also listed, for one.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
I guess the point is, since Ultimate Sabertooth is not listed a CM in the X-Men page, is it fair to use a quote from him for that page?
Speaking of quotes, are there any other opinions on the ones I suggested for the Western animation and Marvel animation pages?
Marvel Animation: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1512#37790
Western Animation: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1511#37760discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1511
edited 2nd Apr '15 4:26:35 PM by Overlord
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It's the only page he is listed. Not every continuity has or needs their own entry (otherwise we could pile on more Apocalypses and Sinisters), nor do I see it as a viable reason to discount a quote from the character. Unless Ultimate!Sabertooth was specifically deemed not to qualify (?)
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Ghetsis was a generic "take-over-the-world" villain in a series where trying to destroy it has become the norm. His worst actions were offscreen, and even taking that into account people inflate the extent of his evil deeds much worse than they actually are. Besides, it's not much in his favor when the rest of the villains in the series (human or Legendary) ever since Darkrai and Cyrus has been an Omnicidal Maniac whereas Ghetsis' only attempted murder was of the hero. That's really not heinous enough, so Ghetsis isn't being re-discussed for good reason.
Anyways, I've been flying through the YMMV pages and came across The Proposition's page. Someone edited Eden Fletcher's entry to say that the Big Bad Arthur Burns qualifies without actually adding a writeup (or even a separate entry; they just tagged it onto the end of Fletcher's writeup). Now, since I haven't seen the movie, could someone offer some enlightenment or PM the user who added that?
@ RJ: There is a search feature for forums, you can use that to find out why we cut Ghetsis. Otherwise we have already wasted far too much time on him.
@ Morgenthaler, I thought Ultimate Sabertooth was discounted because the heroes in the UU are considered such loathsome Jerkass types on this thread, that is hard for anyone who isn't a genocidal psychopath to count. Ultimate Wolverine tried to kill Cyclops just to steal his girlfriend and almost committed rape by deceit with Mary Jane. But I suppose without the harder heinous standard, he may have counted, so I guess we could use that quote.
edited 2nd Apr '15 4:23:13 PM by Overlord
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Scraggle, according to Lightysnake, Burns cares for his gang and family.
That's correct. Arthur is a brutal bandit, a rapist and a killer, but the people in his inner circle are everything to him.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Woah, the site just went weird. Facebook and Twitter feed. And night vision. This night vision's cool. Anyway, I just removed that added sentence for Fletcher.
edited 2nd Apr '15 4:49:44 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Edward Low. Also as a One Piece fan I find this proposal kind of hilarious as that series has a major supporting character who's presently allied with the good guys, named after him.
Right. Thanks for clearing that.
The show actually takes serious liberties with Low. In real life, it's highly improbable Low ever met Vane, as Vane was dead by the time Low even became the captain of the Fancy. The real man was absolutely famed for his cruelty and brutality with a penchant for torture.
However, he was known for not harming women, children or men with families due to his own wife and child.
edited 2nd Apr '15 5:42:23 PM by Lightysnake
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Low.
And wow, I noticed the new page layout as well. The resources and Display Options are easier to find and toggle. I see that there's a Night Vision mode too. ...Huh.
Suddenly I'm inclined to wear sunglasses.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
for Edward Low.
The ironic thing about Ghetsis suddenly resurfacing is that I might have given serious thought to bringing him back up as an April Fool's Day joke if I wasn't opposed in principle to the internet's institutionalization of it.
to Low.
This might work as an a picture for the Punisher page, if people here think the context is clear:
Also I think I might have found a good quote for the Punsiher page:
"So you go ahead an' scream, homes. You beg. You plead. Music to my muthafuckin' ears."
Barracuda.
edited 31st Jul '15 5:29:43 AM by SeptimusHeap
Ultimate Sabretooth does nothing to qualify, being little more than a thug on Magneto's payroll, so a quote from him would not work. A quote from the actual Sabretooth would be fine.
Glad that somebody cut that line about Arthur Burns, because he doesn't meet the requirements, and was cut because of that.
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Quotes that are basically the length of a speech are deprecated for headline quotes in general, not just CM pages.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"