Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I am aware of that. I am not the one who proposed him in the first place.

It was a DOUBLE arrow, not you
Aika Village is cut.

I recall once we let an evil Player Character in, but that was because it was a big twist that you're playing as the game's villain, not its hero, and there were no "alternate" good or evil paths. Can't recall what game it was though.

Oh, okay then.

I think you're referring to the witch Ellen from The Witch's House, or something to that effect. But, yeah, she actually switched bodies with another girl prior to the main events of the game, and then she causes the girl's father to unintentionally kill his own daughter, because he thought that she was a monster.

edited 21st Nov '14 11:00:43 AM by AustinDR

Fair enough. I will skip Player Character's example.

edited 21st Nov '14 11:01:49 AM by Hawaii_Knut

Maybe do it (heck, I'm just curious. Why don't we allow PCs anyway? Moral agency?}.
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edited 21st Nov '14 11:09:27 AM by ACW

I guess the Designated Hero trope would be at play there.

Player characters COULD count, but only if they have literally no chance to be anything but a Complete Monster. If say, a player character is a Complete Monster on 4/5 routes, but can be redeemed on the fifth, they're out. Needless to say, player characters who qualify are pretty rare — not a whole lot of people want to play as a Complete Monster, after all.

edited 21st Nov '14 11:21:28 AM by AquaRegia

I thought it was that, since it's the player's choice to take an "evil" path in a game, it'd be like calling a real person a monster.

I just view it as just calling the player's character a monster, not the player his or herself.

A player character could only qualify if the game forced them to do horrible things and gave them no alternate routes. They would also have to be incapable of doing a single good thing out of genuine altruism. Ellen is the only example so far. It's played out so that you are forced to do horrible things. You have to feed a frog to a giant snake even after the frog had helped you, and you have to kill a living flower. Ellen does do some good things in the game( saving a butterfly from a giant spider for example), but after you have played the full game through, and considering the way Ellen acts, and the fact that she needed to save the butterfly to continue, it is nlikely she did that out of altruism, rather it is more likely she did it for her own benefit. I woulb be wlling to judge this player character that is being suggested rather than jus dismiss it on principal, but only if the game forces you to do horrible things with no other option, and prevents you from doing any good things out of altruism (doing good things for your own benefit is acceptable though).

So, could the guy from that upcoming game Hatred qualify?

Who is he, and what's the plot?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatred_%28video_game%29

Ah yes, that thought occurred to me too. We'll have to wait until the game's released, but he sure seems like he could be a prime candidate.

Has its own page, BTW: Hatred

edited 21st Nov '14 12:58:20 PM by ACW

@ Hawaii Knut: My only problem with Lorne is he's a proxy. Black Garius was responsible for the massacre and had Lorne carry it out.

On American Horror Story...season is less than half through. Let's delay talk on it, shall we? Thought so.

I'd also like to make a proposal, from the book based on Star Wars Rebels as a prequel: A New Dawn. The contender is a wealthy mining mogul, Denetrius Vidian

Who Is He??

Vidian is known as a whistleblower who exposed corrupt defense contractors during the clone wars. This is a lie. Vidian's true name is Lemuel Tharsa, formerly a flunky safety inspector and scientist who contracted a disease that destroyed his body. Tharsa had himself converted into a cyborg and adopted a new identity. Eventually rising to the position of a wealthy mogul, Vidian was granted control of the mining colony Gorse and its moon Cynda.

Vidian is known as a brutal taskmaster, who doesn't take well to people not meeting their mining queues.

What Does He Do?

Vidian is awful to those under him. In between forcing people to work themselves to death, he brutally beats a union boss to death with his bare hands (he's fond of this as a motivating tool).

The worst thing? Vidian plans to mine Cynda ruthlessly in a matter that will end up destroying the whole moon in a matter that will cause massive repercussions for Gorse and kill everyone there, workers and immigrated species alike. Vidian plots to frame his rival, Baron Danthe for this and rise even further in the imperial hierarchy.

Through the novel, Vidian displays willingness to kill and torture whoever crosses him. When at one point he orders a factory manager to increase her input by an unreasonable amount, she protests it's impossible. Vidian proceeds to shove the poor woman (who has been nothing but reliable in her role) into a vat of acid and uses a pole to pin her inside to dissolve in slow, agonizing fashion. When her husband confronts him and tries to arrest him, Vidian beats him to death with his bare hands.

Freudian excuse or heinous standard?

As mentioned, Vidian did suffer before he became a cyborg. He was a safety inspector who was frustrated his reports were frustrated by corrupt bureaucracy. However, he wasn't driven insane, nor did he fall to the Dark Side. Vidian chose to recreate himself in a sense of "oh, screw it, I'm joining the winning side." In this role, he's every bit as corrupt and murderous than any corrupt factory boss who ever stymied him. He's nothing more than a glory hound and a murderer.

It's typical for John Jackson Miller to give villains seeming redeeming traits and then snatch them away, so I feel it's what he's done in this case. Vidian's excuse doesn't come close to attempting genocide for his personal profit and advancement in imperial esteem.

The heinous standard...as this is in an entirely new SW continuity, I think we're clear.

I've been thinking about proposing him for a while. from me.

Not sure it's a new contionuity (isn't it canon with the films?), but it seems like he's the worst with what he has. His Freudian Excuse on his character page gives me pause though. I'll even accept that getting his reports ignored and him switching sides isn't mitigating enough, but the other stuff...

Vidian, if his motive for being evil really is just jumping into bet with the winning side.

I address that. Vidian isn't joining the class that did damage to tear them down, or because he's so hurt he's lashing out...he's joining them because he's going "oh, fuck it, I want money and fame."

He's brutally oppressing and murdering people who had nothing to do with anything that happened to him solely for cash and is a more corrupt bureaucrat than anyone he hated before the Clone Wars. He also keeps his Tharsa name alive solely so he can sign off on nastier stuff.

I'll vote a tentative (not as bad as Palpatine obviously, but with what he has he seems bad enough). So the flesh-eating disease didn't make him insane so much as give him time to go "fuck it, I'm joining the Empire"?

I mentioned this guy pages ago. He's also obsessed with efficiency as a result of his previous condition, and there's a brief mention that he thinks the Empire is the best thing for accomplishing that, but he doesn't seem to care about a greater good in that respect, and it really doesn't excuse destroying a couple ecosystems with no warning.

edited 21st Nov '14 2:33:18 PM by YamiVizzini

So seems like a Freudian Excuse that doesn't disqualify.

for Vidian.

Vidian