Name discussion.: Truffaut Was Right

Not calling for a rename of Truffaut Was Right at the moment, but the name is a bit problematic in that even if you know who Francois Truffaut is, you're just as likely to associate him with spearheading the auteur movement in film-making as much as the trope.

So some might look at the name and think "Oh, he was right that films can be art due to a director's artistic vision."

Will have to look at the wicks, but I think you can see where I'm coming from.

Wars Are Exciting since that seems to be the thrust of why you can't make an antiwar movie? Cant Make An Anti War Movie?

It's more general than wars.

Hm, sounds like a merge or broadening was done since I read it last. I think we've got a specific subset for gangsters under Damn It Feels Good To Be Gangster or equivalent. Would a broad title for the super trope of "it's hard to show this as a bad thing" be necessary?

Yes, this does need changing, for the reasons the OP gave.

No idea for a name. The general idea is clear (in literary criticism, it seems generally accepted that moralistic stories seldom manage to make virtue as interesting as vice), but bugger if I can think of a way to sum that up.

Theres No Anti-War War Movie is a reasonable title, considering that's specifically what Truffaut was talking about. War sounds like as basic an example as anything, and punchier than a generalized title is likely to be.

Unenforced Aesop?

Counterproductive Aesop?

Vices Are Always Attractive?

That doesn't state that this is about anti-messages failing because the vices are attractive.

Aesop Presentation Failure?

edited 15th Sep '10 9:58:50 AM by Deboss

That looks like a redirect to Clueless Aesop.

Since Truffaut Was Right is currently the only trope for discussing the sliding scale of Anti War Film, which redirects there, and since the current trope references Truffaut's quote about violence, we need a trope for the central message of Truffaut "no such thing as an anti-war movie" and aversions thereof. We may need:

One trope for violence on screen, which is what Truffaut Was Right the quote references.

• Violence Is Wrong or Violence Is Attractive would be a good name. with former as redirect, heh.
• Sliding Scale Of Anti Violence or Anti Anti War Film would also get the concept.

One trope for other vices on screen which, really, have little to do with Truffaut's specific quote and more to do with titillation in general. This is more of a super trope. (Too broad? It's basically the current trope definition, which is yes, very broad.)

• Truffaut Titillation Theory would be a good name.
• Titillation Theory or just Titillation would be another. << ((!!) perhaps we're overthinking this)

One trope for actual Anti War Films (currently redirects to Truffaut Was Right).

• Anti War Film would be a good name.

We also have And That's Terrible.

edited 24th Sep '10 1:42:26 AM by berr

Again, the problem with using his name at all is that he's not known just for this.

But he's cited in the article for it... I've also seen Truffaut's complaint used elsewhere, but I can't blame someone if they haven't heard of him, they're usually film critic essays and so on.

DQZ - that's why I suggest Truffaut Titillation Theory with just... yep, it's not taken... Titillation as a redirect.

I figure if Titillation Theory is too vague, it's because the trope is very broad, in which case something like Violence Is Attractive (or some such) would be a subtrope. Besides, it's basically about audience titillation.

Y'know, the trope is about titillation, Truffaut had a theory about it...

edited 24th Sep '10 11:35:57 AM by berr

Would it be worth if I ykttw'ed a separate Sliding Scale Of... trope / works list for Anti War Film? (with a "type 1-5" sort of article description, and unordered examples of war films that fall in one or more categories)? It could link to this trope, naturally enough.

edited 24th Sep '10 11:48:55 AM by berr

I hate the X Was Right snowclone family, even if X is well known for whatever he was going on about.

In trope terms, it's something of a double-negative. It's a simplification, but most tropes work like "Unlike in Real Life, in many works, things work differently, in ways we will now describe."

Again, oversimplifying, but when you read a trope like Concealment Equals Cover (picking one I happen to be looking at), the name is basically a positive statement of unreality. Real Life = "Concealment Aint Cover", Fiction = "Concealment Equals Cover".

Here, when you read Truffaut Was Right, the implication is that "really" whatever Truffaut said Was Wrong, but here's a list of things that say otherwise. It's confusing, and I always get mildly annoyed parsing these trope names.

edited 24th Sep '10 11:52:31 AM by suedenim

^The premise of Truffaut Was Right is that Truffaut was right. I don't see why a reverse meaning is implied by the title. That is I'm unsure that most readers automatically reverse meanings for "was right". I was under the impression that most "was right" tropes work straight. (e.g. Lamarck Was Right, Rousseau Was Right, Freud Was Right)

Originally this trope matched the title. Originally it was "no such thing as an anti war film"; a visual medium tends to glamorise war. So, from the current title you need to first get the reference and then greatly generalise it. Twice: once to anything being glamorised, and then to any form of inadvertent glamorisation.

How about splitting out the original trope under the current title and renaming the general trope?

Vice Hatchet Job Boomerang?

edited 24th Sep '10 8:02:57 PM by Camacan

^Lamarck Was Right is about works of fiction where Lamarckianism is true. Truffaut Was Right is about how Truffaut was right about works of fiction — it's not about works of fiction where people try and fail to make anti-war movies, which is the meaning that would be parallel to all the other "was right" tropes.

In some ways, I actually think Freud Was Right is the most confusing one, since it could be reasonably construed as applying to either the characters or the creator.

edited 24th Sep '10 9:58:54 PM by Micah

What about a variant of Do Not Do This Cool Thing?

Or War Is Cool?

Or just make that redirect the proper name.

Do Not Do This Cool Thing is pretty darn good. I'd support switching it for the current name.

^It has the advantage of being clear and more concrete. I too would be happier to see it under that name. (What's Anti War Movie doing as a redirect? I'm sure it was much broader than that by the time it left YKTTW.)

edited 25th Sep '10 2:00:57 AM by Camacan

Anti War Movie doesn't work as a redirect for TWR because it sounds like a genre similar to War Is Hell. Lost Anti War Message might work though.