Children's Books

I admit that I kinda like Vile Villain, Saccharine Show. Gives the baddie a bit more oomph.

I don't recall ever seeing that in kid lit. Generally, if the villain's gonna be nasty, the work has at least some dark undertones to begin with.

Maybe it's simply more common in fantasy, and since I've read a lot of that, I'd know. One in particular that comes to mind is Dragon Rider, where the book itself is quite cute and harmless, but the bad guy, Nettlebrand, is really surprisingly vile.

When I first saw that trope, I thought of The Remarkable Journey of Prince Jen, but then I tried to figure out if the world itself is really as light as I'm remembering it. The Thirsty Sword is several degrees of scary, in a world which is otherwise funny and lighthearted, but then again, the main character is also locked into a cangue for life on a trumped-up charge.

I love re-reading Tove Jansson's Moomintroll books, although the further into the series you go, the less "childish" they become; the last one, Moominvalley in November, can be downright bleak at times. (tho it's still well worth reading.) Jansson knew this, which is why she quit writing them.

edited 18th May '11 4:38:09 PM by Geoduck

Finished the last Kidnapped book, the On The Run sequel series.

A lot of backstabbing in the end. To wit,

• "Mickey", the 20-year-old kidnapper, who had been having Lima Syndrome and, for that matter, also had the most sympathetic reason for getting involved in the kidnapping (he wanted money to hire a lawyer for his brother who'd gotten in a lot of trouble with the law), set Meg free in book 2.
• In book 3, Mickey is the one who gets caught and arrested first, and is unable to tell where the other two have gone, as they basically left him behind to take the heat, figuring that he might have been the one who set Meg free. Naturally, he has no problem joining the side of Aiden and Agent Harris (who doesn't trust him, and keeps him under constant watch).
• The "Blog Hog", a friendly blogger who somehow receives messages from the kidnappers personally via his popular blog aimed at getting support for Meg's parents, was working with the kidnappers the whole time, and all the e-mails the kidnappers sent were actually his own e-mails to himself. He pulls a gun on Meg's parents and directs them to where "Tiger" is.
• "Spidey", the brutish kidnapper, and the one who wants revenge on Meg's family because he believes their parents to be traitors (as per the events of the previous series), is cut out of the deal. In fact, his whole role was to make the kidnapping look convincing, and die, as part of a "botched kidnapping", leaving no-one behind who could point to her.

Ultimately, "Tiger" and the friendly "Blog Hog" who appeared to be on the family's side, were the ringleaders of the operation. Brutish "Spidey" and sympathetic "Mickey" were set up to be killed anyway, with the kidnapping looking as if they were the only two involved, while "Tiger" and "Blog Hog" got away. No ransom was involved. The idea was to kill the entire Falconer family, leaving all traces of the terrorist organization that they mostly, but not entirely, brought done out of the public eye. (On The Run had, as backstory, the killings of various innocent people who might be able to expose the organization)

Yup, that's one hell of a plot.

Cool. Although one wonders if a blogger did something to the author at some point.

I'm just rereading stuff right now, so nothing to report on for now. But I have a truly huge backlog, so I'm sure I'll be reporting soon. I don't know if I should first tackle the sequel to The Magic Thief, or the new book I bought that looks really promising, Flora Segunda.

I decided to read The Magic Thief: Lost first. Much like with the first one, I thought I'd just read a chapter or two... and I ended up gobbling up half the book.

You can tell how badly these books have gotten to me. There was a point when I knew I couldn't stop reading... And that point was when two characters began to fight. I knew I couldn't stop reading until they were friends again.

Question: What's your opinion on the Newbery Medal/Honor awards? Do you think the books they pick are award bait, do you think Death by Newbery Medal is a stupid trope, that sort of thing.

Personally, while I don't know what the criteria the commitee uses, most of the books that I loved when I was younger were Newbery Medal or Honor, and I probably wouldn't be as good a reader as I am without them.

Great question! I have, int he last two years, read a lot of Newbery winning books and have actually started to try and analyze them seriously. I'm thinking of starting a blog on the subject; would anyone be interested in following a blog like that?

I agree: some of my favorite kid's books of all time (The Giver, Bridge To Terabithia, A Single Shard, Holes, The Graveyard Book, Good Masters! Sweet Ladies!, and I could go on) all sport a Newbery on their cover. For that, I automatically like the award. Speaking as generally as possible, the Newbery indicates a pretty high quality of writing all around.

However. There's definitely formula in the Newbery, which becomes especially evident the more recent the books get. Lots of dogs die. Wise mentors abound, in all shapes and sizes. There's a lot of hands-on work. And some books have won the Newbery riding on what appears to be nothing more than incredible self-importance and a kid-sized helping of True Art Is Angsty — Jacob Have I Loved (god I hate that book) and Out of the Dust come to mind.

However, what I will say for the Newbery is that they have never shied away from tough subject matters, creative storytelling, and their speculative fiction gamut is pretty good. From Toy Story As Done in 1933, to "A Tropical Island Where Everyone Goes Hot-Air Ballooning" to "A Bunch of Medieval Children's Monologues in Poetry" and etc, they've got range. So overall, I like the Newbery, but it has its shortcomings. I could elaborate if anyone's interested.

Oh, and is the Newbery responsible for the "death of literature among children"? I would blame that more on bad teaching (relentlessly picking apart the "symbolism" of every little thing in a book is an excellent way to kill its soul) and on the decline of reading in general.

relentlessly picking apart the "symbolism" of every little thing in a book is an excellent way to kill its soul

Oh yeah, how true. How I hated that nonsense in high school. At least it wasn't done in elementary school (as I recall, it was more about what happens in the story, and so on, basic comprehension of the book). Screw symbolism. Even if it is intentional, I'm tired of hearing about it. Just give me a damn story.

I haven't read many Newbery books personally, other than a handful of ones that averted Death by Newbery Medal. That includes The Headless Cupid and Ramona Quimby Age 8, both of which were wonderfully non-pretensious and were only trying to tell a fun story, and succeeded. The Headless Cupid (first of The Stanley Family series) in particular was a lot of fun for its unusual choice of subject matter and light-hearted portrayal. Watch a bunch of noob little kids try to follow a bossy bratty teenage girl's instructions on how to join the occult, while she's actually laughing at them the whole time! It's great fun.

On the other hand, I always thought that Award Bait is annoying. But here's food for thought. Guess what happened to be in the "most e-mailed" section of Google News today?

An article called "Why the Best Kids Books are Written in Blood" from The Wall Street Journal. It's here if you want to read it. She gives a very good rejoinder to those who say that depressing, violent or realistically thematic books are bad for kids:

Worth a read. Especially for those who actually can't relate to the kinds of characters found in Death by Newbery Medal works because we haven't lived those kinds of lives.

edited 10th Jun '11 7:15:58 AM by BonsaiForest

It's not that I believe in sheltering kids. It's that so many attempts at introducing kids to "tough" topics like death, abuse, and sexuality are so condescending and maudlin. And as noted, although there are some very good books that happen to have the Newbery medal on the cover (I remain a big fan of Shiloh to this day, not only for averting a lot of Newbery tropes, but for averting a lot of Newbery tropes when there's a dog involved), I find a lot of them to be the bait that they often come off as.

They tend to suffer from a kind of "soulless emotion"—melodrama that seems poignant on the surface, but the way it's handled or the ultimate lack of depth just turn it into Glurge.

I know kids can handle some deep stuff and pick up on it. I remember talking with my seven-year-old cousin about the movie Up shortly after it came out, and one of the things he said about it was (paraphrased): "I liked how when Carl threw all the stuff out of his house, his and Ellie's chairs were still next to each other." And I remember as a kid, watching The Adventures Of Mark Twain, and noticing how the picture of Mark Twain's dead wife looked exactly like his depiction of Eve, and thinking how sad and touching that was. I think what writers need to learn is not that kids can handle Big Issues, but that they can handle a little subtlety. You can call attention to things without beating us over the head with them.

edited 12th Jun '11 1:08:30 AM by FreezairForALimitedTime

If that was for me, then thanks. If not, well, I'm sure whoever it's for is/will be happy anyway.

Should have put one of those in there, too.

Yeah, it was for you. Reading that made me happy.

Well...when I got into The Edge Chronicles, I was technically "too old" for them. (And I was kind of embarassed to be seen buying them, although I did anyway.) But I couldn't help it, they were just so awesome! And they had sky pirates. Also, I reread A Wrinkle in Time, The Phantom Tollbooth, and all of Roald Dahl's books all the time. They're all still some of my favorite books, even though they're meant for younger kids.

I was a bit older than the target audience for Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain when I first picked them up, but I loved them anyway. I'm in my 30's now, and I still break them out and re-read them every so often.

Heh. Thanks. Then again, I have semi-strong feelings regarding Award Bait.

Last year, someone recommended a book to me they really liked. And not only did I not really like it, I hated it. I wanted to chuck it across the room by the time I was done with it. It made me feel really bad, too, because I normally totally agreed with most of that person's taste in books, but I found myself unable to love that Award Bait-y stuff like they wanted me to. I still might read the sequel, but only because it looks like it might avert the predictable pablum of the first book.

I LOVED moomintrolls when I was a kid. I tried to find some copies but they have disappeared from the libraries around where I live.

I also like E. Nesbit. You know how women supposedly use their initials on books so boys will read them? I didn't know this when I was a kid, saw somewhere that she was a woman, and assumed for a long time that any author who does that is a woman.

There is another book for really little kids that is awesome, unfortunately I had to give it away (or throw it away, we were cleaning house and getting rid of all the kid's books.) It was about an owl who loses his teddy bear and when I found it in the box and reread it as an adult, realised how wonderful owls with teddy bears are. EDIT: it appears to be called Little Owl.

edited 19th Jun '11 7:41:35 AM by Hatshepsut

I would say "no", I don't read kids' books. If your reading comprehension is adequate people probably shouldn't, because they often aren't all that deep or well-written. However there is one kids' book that I still count among my favourite books, and I re-read it every five years or so. That book is Watership Down.

Superb tale, male sibling.

I'd sent you copies from our local used book store if I could. They have a lot of Moomin books, and although they sell out quickly, they also come in quickly, too. You can always find at least one, but if you want a particular one, you'd better be prepared to snap it up when you find it!

Didn't they just reprint a bunch of them? Hopefully this means I see them starting to show up somewhere.

If your reading comprehension is adequate people probably shouldn't, because they often aren't all that deep or well-written.

Now that's just insulting, and telling people what media they should/shouldn't consume is rather elitist. My reading comprehension is adequate, and I read whatever the hell I want. Plus, the kids' books I read are ones that are deep enough and well-written enough to entertain me. I don't enjoy stuff I consider crap any more than anyone else would.

Admittedly, a large number of kid books are not well-written, but the well-written ones can be a lot of fun.

And regarding depth, what I want is enough depth to have a story that's fun, characters who are relateable/understandable, a good pace, and not insulting my intelligence (at least not too much, provided it's still fun). That's what I ask for from movies most of the time. Is The Bourne Series (movie version) high art? How about Up?

What's more, ever hear the term "potboiler"? That term was used derisively to describe adult fiction that has the qualities you complain about - stuff pumped out just to make money, with no literary value. Didn't stop people from being able to enjoy them anyway. Most fiction, after all, is unrealistic and only meant to be entertaining. I think any fiction with adequate depth and entertainment value should be able to be enjoyed by anyone who wants to read it.

Furthermore, I get the strong impression that the well-written kid books are written by authors who are trying to create something they themselves can be proud of and enjoy. No-one wants to write crap, unless they're doing it for the money, or they're aiming to entertain a very specific audience. When authors write something they themselves want to read, they make something readable and enjoyable (assuming one is into the subject and style they go for).

edited 17th Jun '11 7:51:59 AM by BonsaiForest

...AMG. The Moomins and the Edge Chronicles? Props!

As I mentioned before, I've read quite a few Snyder books (including The Headless Cupid, but it was far from my favorite). Anyone remember Song of the Gargoyle, for example? Or Season of Ponies? Or The Changeling? (I also liked the Green Sky Trilogy, but those were a bit darker.)

edited 23rd Jun '11 12:34:02 AM by FarseerLolotea

I'm reading a Diana Wynne Jones novel I only found out about relatively recently: The Time Of The Ghost. Her writing is usually evocative, but I think she was really on the ball for this one. It's better than usual. And the premise is really intriguing, as is the setting. I think this one may turn out to be an unexpected favorite.