Visual Novels coverage on TVTropes Wiki

This is a thread to organize work on Visual novel-based trope and work pages.

Since this medium is ignored by 99% of our readers, even the few visual novel fans we have could miss the potential places where they sould comment about them, as they are lost in the middle of other stuff. Hence this tread, in a forum where relevant issues will be brought up directly for the people who care about them.

For example:

• I ran this YKTTW, about how after choosing a video game route, the plot tries to downplay those events of the other routes that logically still should happen. I suspect that it has many VN examples, please add those from the works you know.

• Maybe we should also make a Visual Novel Tropes index. What would get up there? Some of the choice tropes from the video games index, I guess, How We Got Here is a common opening of almost every VN, plus some from the harem anime tropes... We should collect these, too.

• Would it be practical to start splitting up the Video Games and Visual Novels folders of the trope example lists, or not? Discuss!

edited 18th Nov '10 5:39:29 AM by EternalSeptember

It's a really small medium but it's more akin to literature than video games so then it's a tough choice. I say split it but there's a good argument against it too since it's such a minority.

Splitting it seems to be the logical option. After all, we split it up on the forum, so why not on the entire wiki. Consistency is a virtue (if you are not a screw-up).

Splitting it would be okay. Nobody seems to know whether they should file stuff like Kanon under anime or video games. Might help with that at least a little.

But then how do you organize stuff that's more known as an anime? Like Clannad.

There are tropes in the Clannad Visual Novel that the anime doesn't have.

I don't know which ones they are off the top of my head, though.

Victorious Childhood Friend, for one.

The small size is not really a problem, Theatre and Fanfiction aren't merged with literature either, if there is a single example of them, they get a folder.

Maybe we should entry pimp a few novels to give the folders a bit more beef.

I added more tropes than I care to remember to the Kira Kira page when I revamped it, but I've yet to add examples of most of them to their respective pages.

I've added a lot of stuff to pages like Cross Channel, Kira Kira and Sharin no Kuni. If we want to separate them there should be plenty of examples on the trope pages so that they're not all lonely by themselves.

I think we should do the Visual Novel Tropes index first.

If we could collect a good list of tropes that are exclusive to, originate from, or dominant in that medium, it would prove that we as tropers should be interested in categorizing them individually, and that could be our justification for demanding an official split.

Anime are different from Western Animation, because as the Anime Tropes page notes, "These are the tropes that go to making Anime worth considering as a whole medium to itself here on TV Tropes". The same goes for differentiating Fanfiction from literature, Webcomics from comic books, Live-Action TV from Film, etc.

Here is a YKTTW. Add VN tropes if you know about some that I missed. If you don't, launch new ones. Even nigh-omnipresent stuff, like Girl Of The Route, or Voiceless Protagonist.

edited 20th Nov '10 3:09:38 PM by EternalSeptember

What about Visual Novels that use gameplay elements from other genres. Ace Attorney is a Visual Novel / Adventure Game where would it go?

edited 28th Nov '10 1:45:52 PM by RhymeBeat

Probably Video Games, because it's usually discussed by gaming sites, and gamers.

There are so few of these borderline examples, that I could count them on my fingers. It would be easier even to decide their categories one by one, than to bend the category definitions around them.

I repeat what I said. Please, read and expand this index in the YKTTW . I could name 15 tropes from the top of my head, and only got 2 more in replies, so I'm sure we could find many more. I'm mostly thinking of plot tropes, that prove why V Ns are different from Anime & Manga.

edited 29th Nov '10 12:07:12 AM by EternalSeptember

I've be thinking, maybe one of the problems is simply there is not enough VN tropes in this wiki? Considering how "popular" they are this wouldn't be a surprise.

I don't think there is a trope about how VN screens usually works, for example. The difference between 'whole screen text' (Fate/Stay Night and When They Cry or the msot common botton screen text (Katawa Shoujo, Clannad).

Should we start to brainstorming the VN only tropes there are lacking and YKTTW it?

edited 29th Nov '10 12:42:29 PM by Heatth

That's a good idea.

The tags on the VNDB are a goldmine both for new tropes, and for collecting examples for our existing trope pages.

For example, they have tags like "Heroine with Ahoge", or Breaking the Fourth Wall, or Harem Ending, so focusing on the ones with english flags, we could start importing them to their respective pages. (thoughyou still need to be familiar witht he work to write a proper description, in most cases.)

Some useful new tropes I found there are NVL (whole screen text), Multiple Route Mystery, andKinetic Novel.

edited 30th Nov '10 5:21:13 AM by EternalSeptember

Enforced Playing Order?

Cool.

'NVL'. I knew that name but I've forgotten. That is a good start, I think. But how much is that tropeable? It is just a screen presentation thing. Anyway, even if we do not make it in a trope, the definition and distinction from the traditional style should go somewhere. Probably in the Visual Novel page.

'Multiple Route Mystery' is covered in Jigsaw Puzzle Plot, I would say. It should go to the index, though, specially noting how V Ns usually handle it. Since it is a pre existent term, can we make it a redirect? Do we use media specific redirect? In fact, a lot of tabs there could become redirects. It would help the V Ns fans to get to know this wiki.

'Kinetic Novel'. Oh, that one is important. In fact, how can we don't have this yet? Definitively needs a YKTTW.

Other suggestions would be 'Otome Game' It is basically the Distaff Counterpart of Date Sim, but it should be noted, even if just as a redirect (I don't know enough to know if it is different enough to make a new trope).

'True End' is another important one. From games with Multiple Endings, it is not rare the One True End.

While on that, 'Unlockable Routes' seems important as well. It can go along the 'EnforcedPlayingOrder'(a subtrope) neobowman suggested.

About actually doing all these YKTTW... Well, I hate pushing things into others, but I don't think I can do it myself. I think it is quite obvious by now but English is not my native language and I believe my writing is quite awkward. I can do suggestions but I don't think I can actually write a text. Furthermore, despite my obvious interest, I actually have played very few V Ns. About 5 (and having finished just 3).

edited 30th Nov '10 6:58:17 AM by Heatth

For the time being, I will launch the Visual Novel Tropes index, so we can more comfortably list tropes there, the YKTTW crowd couldn't help much anyways, as expected.

I'm not a native speaker either, plus I already have a dozen tropes rotting YKTTW Hell, but maybe I can take a few new ones in.

I will also suggest the folder splitting in Wiki Talk, just to get a nod of approval from Fast Eddie. Last time, with the forum, it went easily.

True Ending is covered under Multiple Endings, Road Cone and Golden Ending. But then, that's a lot of things that cover it partially. I also don't really think you can consider stuff like ahoge heroine to be a VN trope when the ahoge is so common in anime. It's simply a trope common to both that has a basis in Japanese culture.

I think the trope repair shop thing for it disappeared when the old forum stuff was purged, but Official Couple was supposed to be reworked and possibly split into something that would fit into a VN index. But the page would need to be brought up there again.

I didn't suggest launching a new Ahoge trope, I meant that that page could help in entry-pimping the current Ahoge page with visual novel examples, just like the rest of the existing tropes that are categorized over there.

I didn't say that's what you meant. I said that it's not really a VN trope.

Oh, I forgot the Golden Ending. My mistake.

What do you mean with splitting Official Couple? As in covering the situation where, in a VN, you can chose many girs but only one is the true main heroine? Like in Clannad?

PS: Oh, so you are not a native speaker either, Endless Nine (can I cal you that, it is a 'cool' double reference)? Too bad. In this case I think I should try to write something (since it don't seem there are many people interested), but I really don't trust in my English.

edited 30th Nov '10 8:12:53 AM by Heatth

Fast Eddie approved splitting the folders.

So, how do we start this? Just keep casually browsing the Wiki, and edit them whenever we see one? Or we should set up some organized plan?

I am more likely to work if we set some organized plan. I am too much of a slacker to work without pressure.

Anyway, we should start with the Visual Novel Tropes, I guess. There is just the issue of what to do if the VN in question has an anime adaption. Should we move the example or leave there?

PS: Oh, in case you didn't notice, I edited my previous post while you were posting. Not that the information there matter, anyway.

PPS: I added Golden Ending to plot tropes in Visual Novel Tropes. It is likely to need some editing. Also, there is a reason for Renai Game to be outside the Alphabetic order.

edited 30th Nov '10 8:22:21 AM by Heatth

Actually I don't know Umineko, it's just a Haruhi reference, plus an Eternal September reference, plus the month I got into Anime ( '09/09/9 no less), so yes, you can definitely call me that.

Probably do whatever the readers would expect more. Fate Stay Night, move. Umineko, move. Tsukihime, definitely move. Clannad, School Days, Ef, keep.

Unless, of course, the trope happens only in the VN.