Hazbin Hotel (Amazon Prime)

His treatment of Sir Pentious shown he can be just as cruel an employer as Val really.

I get the feeling the Vees are gonna be like a Deconstruction of the Terrible Trio trope, they have the same goofiness and off-duty bantering, but are not remotely sympathetic and actually quite menacing and vile to anyone that is actually under them. They're very flawed Big Bad Wannabes, but not in a way that makes them remotely underdog-ish.

I suppose they're like a more realistic version of Team Rocket where they've managed to climb some ranks and their job equating to trafficking living beings is portrayed for all the horror that it should be.

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 30th 2024 at 2:11:21 PM

You kind of get that Terrible Trio deconstruction already with Valentino. If you're a newcomer who hasn't seen Addict, then your first view of Valentino is episode 2 where he's presented as childlike with anger issues that are mainly played for laughs. However, a scene with Angel alone in his room (where he's looking at the texts), demonstrates how monstrous Valentino is, something that is shown further in Episode 4.

I definitely imagine Vox (whose already shown shades of this) and Velvette will be the same next season.

Like how Vox's way of being nice to Valentino is sending him the lowest earners to be shot.

Edited by king15 on Mar 30th 2024 at 2:20:23 PM

Yeah, I think they're this kind of vibe of, yeah, they're silly off-duty. Lots of horrible people can be casual and even goofy when they're NOT in action.

That's generally how abusive or sociopathic people work in real life, they're not constantly one-note ominous and menacing like they are in fiction to let you on who the bad guy is. They have a life outside being abusive, that's actually the creepier thing about them, destroying someone is just a part of their lives that they can tune out when they feel like it.

I also feel like they might keep teasing the audience this way, like going in and out with the Vees "Wile E Coyoting" a plan one moment and then the next getting a very unpleasant The Bad Guy Wins moment as soon they look remotely pitiful. We already seen this contrast with Episodes 2 and 4. First one they can't do anything right, second one, they (especially Val) look like a horrific force of power that looms over the cast and gives them hopelessness.

Episode 6 I suppose is the middle ground, Val's still the bully in that one and still holds power, but Niffty takes some of the menace away from him in the end. This guy is gonna fuck around with the Mood Whiplash like crazy.

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 30th 2024 at 2:32:06 PM

Honestly, this is the true problem a lot of people have with Stella in Helluva. Some fans just wish she was written in the same vein Val. Someone who who has a clear personality outside of just being an abuser or a plot device character in another character's story.

I'm wondering if Sera and Emily's relationship is gonna turn sour, since that might be the next nuance in that regard. The "sympathetic abuser" a'la King Triton who doesn't understand how toxic they are or is able to reign in their vices around their loved ones. I tend to think that is as effective in the cautionary tale of abusive relationships, that not all abusers are knowing evil monsters from a Lifetime movie like Val or Stella and sometimes you even risk becoming one as much as falling victim to one.

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 30th 2024 at 2:41:24 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V2wnGeiL1k&t=162s

Just Stop's review of Hazbin Hotel.

I like this critique onestly. It sounds harsh, but he undeniably wants the show to improve and sees the potential.

Does Val really have a life outside of being an abusive fucker? Vox and Velvette I can see, since Vox can put on an air of charisma while being a successful businessman, and Velvette can flip from bitchy and irreverent fashionista to somewhat charming and intuitive socialite at the drop of a hat. Val's behavior is just that of an average pimp, with even his relationship to Vox being more Vox just keeping him in control. We don't get any sort of multifacet to Val, his character is defined by him being an abusive and temperamental pimp, compared to Vox's past with Alastor or Velvette actually being pretty smart/intuitive with picking up on Carmilla knowing about the dead Exorcist.

Speaking of, I would hope that at least one Vee proves to be at the very least willing to entertain redemption. Val is obviously a no go, but I think it would be an interesting angle if either Vox or Velvette at the very least entertained the idea of redemption. Would be a nice way of giving Charlie a challenge, but also give the opportunity to further explore their characters. They don't have to go through with the redemption, hell they could pull a Redemption Rejection and decide they like being horrible, but it would be a nice idea to see if even someone like a Vee could be redeemed.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Mar 30th 2024 at 1:26:33 PM

Val seems to be weirdly friends with the other Vees. So maybe when he's not abusing his employees he just goofs off with them.

I do think that Val have other sides to him besides being an abusive violator since despite it all, he still is fully capable of running a porn-industry without issues, meaning he got the skills to keep the business running.

(Also, thanks to Valentino, I've learned way more about moth-anatomy then I knew before due to looking up moths regarding their eyesight and while on it, reading up the rest of their anatomy in the process.)

(I wish that I hadn't.)

Besides that, if a Vee would ever consider redemption then it would be after losing everything of their Overlord-status first. Leaving them with nothing but each other at the end of their fall, which would let us the viewers see and learn how strong their bonds are between one another when those are all that's left at the end.

Since all those soul-contracts in their current possession most likely might have to be broken in order for redemption to become a more general available option to the Sinners of the Pride-ring.

I wouldn't call Val three-dimensional, just that, as said before, he can be casual when not around his victims, or sometimes even around his victims when he's in a better mood. He's not constantly dwelling on beating and intimidating someone. If anything I'd argue that makes him more unlikeable, he is such toxic consistant in Angel's life and trauma, but really he's just a plaything Val messes with when he's bored.

Really, it would interesting to see a sinner want to redeem who actually HAS a good life already. The underdogish nature of the current residents is fine but it also adds to less personal conflict, they have NOTHING to lose from trying to redeem themselves, it's actually pretty much the best choice they have. A proper Friend-or-Idol Decision type scenario with one would make it more complex, like is it really only the "down on their luck losers" that are capable of humility and change. Like would Husk even remotely consider self improvement if he was still an Overlord?

Out of the Vees, I think Velvette is currently the one with even a slither of a chance. Vox has shown he's low-key just as monstrous as Val to his employees, just in a less hands dirty sort of way (eg. letting Val shoot his lowest earners, breaking Sir Pentious before leaving him at Hazbin's mercy). Velvette is pretty horrible too, but mostly just in a petty Jerkass sort of way than an outright cruel sociopathic manner, she's only been a ratty prima donna to her employees so far, and her Lack of Empathy with one getting torn apart was largely on the notion they would be revived later on. This of course could change, Velvette has yet to gain a foil in Hazbin similar to Vox and Val for example.

Edited by Psi001 on Mar 31st 2024 at 3:23:14 PM

Also, Vox's appearance in Episode 4 shows he's aware of Valentino's treatment of Angel and doesn't care (though his expression is somewhat neutral, jealousy?). While it's very unlikely Velvette doesn't know, for all we know she could be very much against that sort of treatment. This is just an assumption and she would still be an enabler, but it would make her slightly better than the other two Vees.

Edited by king15 on Mar 31st 2024 at 2:36:46 PM

I can likely see Velvette having Niffty as a Morality Pet if she gets to hang out with the Vees due to whatever scheme they have cooking up involving her.

I think the other Vees will show their more vile sides in the future. Their role isn’t to be redeemed but to be antagonists in the way of others’ redemption.

Which they got a good chunk of obstruction already, considering how many souls they got contracted to them.

And their plan seem to involve taking out the other Overlords, including Lucifer and Charlie by the look of their set-up at the end of the final episode, which would make even more trouble down the line.

But even so, the show got a theme of "anyone can be redeemed" but it might also show that "Anyone can be redeemed but they have to choose that option by themselves first."

Edited by Trainbarrel on Mar 31st 2024 at 4:44:32 PM

I feel like they'll do that "anyone can be redeemed" with Alastor

That is if the show goes down the route of redeeming him and not just becoming the final villain

Two aren’t mutually exclusive. Having final battle where Charlie tries to redeem him while everyone else just accepted he is beyond redemption does sound like apropriate climax.

I could easily see them doing both. Perhaps the final season would be all about Alastor finally having gotten free from his metaphorical chains, out to conquer Hell/Heaven/the human world/some combination of the above with his unrestrained power. But then the climax of the final episode would have him realize (to his own shock most of all) that he doesn't actually want that anywhere near as much as he thought he did (especially once he finally accepts that he does care about the others at the Hotel, that trying to bury his feelings for others like he did in the epilogue of Season 1's finale was a terrible idea, and that his plan would entail having to harm them), surrender, and the epilogue would show him putting himself through Charlie's program at the Hotel to earnestly give redemption a shot.

EDIT:

Edited by TrashJack on Mar 31st 2024 at 11:09:58 AM

Bonus points for Alastor then if he, while approaching/accepting the hotel's purpose for real, starts singing "Alastor's Reprise" (from the pilot) but without the band and this time just humming the melody as he sings it with genuine emotions behind it. The lyrics ever so slightly tweaked to fit the situation. Also, not get interrupted by an explosion.

And at the end of it, sport an genuine smile in his face rather than the forced one he is carrying now.

Edited by Trainbarrel on Mar 31st 2024 at 5:19:08 PM

The overall morality of the show at this point seems to be "Redemption should be extended to everyone, but not everyone is worthy of being redeemed and you have to work for it", which seems like the objectively correct stance to take. I would be REALLY shocked if the show attempted to have someone like Valentino undergo a redemption arc.

Please, PLEASE just graphically kill him. Have Alastor cut out pieces of his brain with an Angelic knife, cook them and feed them to him or something.

Nearly perfect. Instead, have Angel do that.

Adam.

Edited by king15 on Mar 31st 2024 at 4:03:08 PM

I want to propose a choice: Would you rather have Adam come back as a sinner and interact with the cast or have Vox and Velvette consider the idea of redemption and join the hotel? You can only choose one.

Yeah, Val is definitely not gonna get redeemed. Even Charlie hates him for what he did to Angel, and she only saw the aftermath of one beating. It's why I omitted him from the possibility of a Vee being redeemed in favor of Vox and Velvette. If any of them do choose redemption, my bets on Velvette.

Val is going to super Hell,probably

Val is going to the pits of Tartarus, where his eternal punishment will be to watch all of his once-enslaved employees leading happy and fulfilling lives in their newfound freedom.