Hazbin Hotel (Amazon Prime)

" That interpretation doesn't work when Adam was the first person to ascend to Heaven, and its not like he was only a dick after he died, since both Charlie's story and Lucifer's treatment of him suggests he was always a misogynistic jackass."

I disagree sense we don't really know the specifics of Adam's life other then that.

My theory is that Adam improved a bit before he died, and that once he got into heaven he did not understand that he had been forgiven. He instead thought it meant 'oh I guess all that stuff was fine'.

The First man

And, even though in the series Adam probably hasn't changed much as I personally think Adam was probably never that great (unless they decide to go the demon Adam route, then he might be given a more sympathetic backstory), someone who has lived for millennium would be absolutely unrecognisable in the present day compared to the days of Adam and Eve. Think about how different you are when you're 40 compared to 20, now times that by about 10,000.

Edited by king15 on Mar 29th 2024 at 6:11:37 PM

Not to mention how the sheer differences in lifestyles that Adam had to face with and the transition between them as well.

Post-Eden: He had to work and toil his hands and bones off every single day just to maybe have enough food for himself living at the absolute threshold of life and away from anything resembling the easy life he had in Eden.

Here comes some religious info that came to mind while thinking about Adam:

(According to one aspect of his story in post-biblical Jewish traditions, Adam withdrew from Eve for 130 years after their exile from Eden and spent the time copulating with demons until he eventually reunited with Eve and in the birth of their son Seth. Also According to "Life of Adam and Eve" which is a Jewish apocryphal group of writings, Adam repented/reflected on his sin in this exile upon which he was rewarded with being transported to the heavenly paradise after his death. He "learned his lesson". Albeit this is just one version of his story, admittedly.)

So with this in mind, Adam of the Hellverse might have had plenty of time to think things over in his life before he died.

Working, worrying, dreading, fretting, fighting, surviving and despairing over his situation but still trying to make the best of it as little that meant.

And then, upon dying, ended up in the same Eden-conditions again in Heaven. Away from hunger, pain, hard work, stress, and all that which made his life miserable when mortal.

The clash of this no doubt must have messed with his mind, which would have still been in survival-mode from his life on Earth, and what greeted him in the afterlife was really not that great in hindsight.

After all, he was the first human soul ever to enter Heaven.

Which meant Heaven was as empty as Eden was after Lilith got cast out and before Eve was created. There might not even have been anyone at the gates to greet him there when he first arrived.

How long did Adam have Heaven all to himself until the next human soul arrived? How much time passed until he had company again? How long did it take for Adam to realize that none of his actual family would actually rejoin with him there no matter how long he waited?

This is just purely speculation of course, but something that came to mind regarding how Adam could have ended up in Heaven, considering the current topic being discussed.

Edited by Trainbarrel on Mar 29th 2024 at 7:45:58 PM

"If there's problems, there's simple solutions."

Well there would still be Heaven born Angels there when he arrived, so he woudn’t be completely alone. Still, being first human soul in Heaven with God knows how long before another like him arrives plus everything he went through is bound to either mess him up or give him serious ego (depending how symphatetic one inteprets him).

Maybe the morals of Heaven change with the times as well. When Adam died, being possessive of your wives, for example, wouldn't have been considered immoral. So, especially considering that it was solely Eve who did all the apple stuff in this interpretation, Adam would have been considered moral by the times to enter Heaven. Plus, as the first man, arguably his morals would have been the baseline so it's certainly understandable why he would get into heaven.

However, the morals needed for entry into heaven may well have changed. For example, when Charlie is doing her little drug dealer performance thing, one of the things she thinks Sir Pentious needs to do to be redeemed is avoid pre-marital sex. This suggests that she thinks he needs to conform to the values of a more socially conservative time, and perhaps Heaven did have those values at some point.

However, when Sir Pentious does make it to heaven, he had just kissed a woman he wasn't married to (a woman he had previously tried to have sex with, and only didn't because he was too awkward, not because he chose not to). That could suggest that the values of heaven have updated slightly (I'm aware that a kiss is a different situation to sex, but as stated before he did try to have sex with her).

So changing morals could be how Adam got into heaven: what he did on Earth might not get humans in modern Earth into heaven.

I'm half-convinced Sir Pentious getting into Heaven wasn't based on merit, but simply because he sucked that hard at being a villain.

How dare you! Chuck Norris once bit Sir Pentious, and then died three weeks later!

It's not about the gold; it's about the glory.

For now, we have too small a sample size, since our only proof of Ascension are Adam and Sir Pentious. We need a third, maybe a fourth, before we can truly ascertain the commonality between them, and in turn extrapolate if that is the reason they Ascended. Cause as is, the only immediate commonality I can find between Adam and Sir Pentious is that they were ultimately both content with who they are, Adam seeing himself as having never made a mistake and a massive ego, and Sir Pentious charging to his death while finally acting on his feelings for Cherri so as to protect his friends.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Mar 29th 2024 at 8:16:50 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Clearly the commonality is that both are played by Alex Brightman.

Therefore, you can only get into Heaven if you're Alex Brightman. Ye Gods, we've cracked it!

It's not about the gold; it's about the glory.

Channel Frederator has released a video with 107 Hazbin Hotel facts. It stars of with some basic facts but goes on to include some very interesting ones as the video goes on.

If embedding isn't working, here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iDAGzDsGOQ

Edited by king15 on Mar 29th 2024 at 1:03:43 PM

Pentious ascension I interpret in two ways. One, God Himself intervened as part of a large scheme, or two, to selflessly sacrifice yourself for others knowing your second death is a total Cessation of Existence is so virtuous it brings you to Heaven instead of ashes to fertilize Hell's soil.

I feel like if all it takes is being confident in who you are, Adam and all of the Exorcists who died should have just come back to Heaven no questions asked. This is definitely something different.

It's been 3000 years…

I think we may need more of Heaven’s backstory before we can determine how Adam got into Heaven. We don’t know how he was while living in the Garden Of Eden, how he was after getting banished, how he was when he first entered Heaven, how HEAVEN was at the beginning etc. It could very well be that a huge number of factors (Not the least a good heaping of in-universe Values Dissonance - As others pointed out, the Hellaverse is probably not a static world) contributed to Adam’s morals getting warped over time rather than him just always having been a jerkoff.

As for why Pentious got into Heaven is, most likely, also a myriad of reasons. I think a big one could be actively WANTING and trying to change for the better because it’s the right thing to do rather than doing it solely for your own benefit, even if you fail often and it’s difficult to overcome your vices either due to your own flaws or potential outside factors. (I also think the part about willingly sacrificing yourself for the sake of someone else - The ultimate selfless act - also plays a big part, but let’s hope that the ”dying” part isn’t a requirement)

The Order of the Stick comes to mind with the deva’s speech to Roy about being Lawful Good: That people don’t realize how much trying to be a good person matters even if they don’t always succeed. What matters the most is that you keep trying even if it’s hard.

Edited by MagmaTeaMerry on Mar 30th 2024 at 8:00:01 PM

My AO3 profile. Let sleeping cats lie and be cute and calming.

Here's a random theory. Since we still don't know what exactly Alastor did to the Overlords whose "screams" he added to his broadcast, and that he did that before his seven year disappearance meaning it was just his own power and therefore shouldn't be able to permakill Sinners himself... what if he tricked those Overlords into making deals with him, then turned them into those shadow minions he has?

Alastor is a "deal maker" after all, and with how charismatic he presents himself as, even when just starting out and not taken seriously, he could have tricked those Overlords into making deals with him until he ended up stealing their souls from them. Husk is proof enough that he has managed to get Overlord's to make deals with him after all.

He threatens to "tear [Husk's] soul apart and broadcast [his] screams for every other disrespectful wretch who dares to question [Alastor]", and a point is made of the fact his shadow minions are demons, with Angel Dust hitting on one and Valentino considering that same one as just another demon. And they tend to have a shared motif of "stitches" on them, so what if he made them from the souls he tore apart once their screams were added to his broadcast, then stitched them back together haphazardly, now his little shadow gremlins he can summon as he pleases.

---

Side note, but I don't believe the fanon that Alastor owns Niffty's soul. Niffty is... an enigma, to be honest. Not even Alastor knows what goes on in her head, he doesn't boss her around like he does Husk, he lets her do things that he would see as "disrespectful" from anyone else like climbing all over him or crowning him "King Roach", and he seems to treat her as a genuine friend, the only other Sinners he ever did that with being Mimzy and Rosie, the former of whom he knew when alive, the latter he shares a similar interest of cannibalism with. I think Niffty is someone he just met in Hell one day and the two hit it off.

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

That's sort of the theory I have as well. He doesn't own her soul, but they do have a deal, but one where Alastor only summons Nifty whenever he wants. She gets to experience new situations, and he gets amusement from watching everyone's discomfort with her deranged antics.

Maybe Niffty is the one whom Alastor made a deal with, and she's so crazy she doesn't flaunt her power around like other Overlords. But that's JUST A THEORY!

It's not about the gold; it's about the glory.

I actually have already seen this one on reddit as a joke. Super unlikely, but hillarious thought either way.

I mean, Nifty did kill Adam (granted she was just finishing him off, but still) - someone who managed to defeat Alastor. Maybe she is powerful enough to enslave him? We're never explicitly told that she follows Alastor's orders, and we never see her do what he says. When he calls her to the hotel, maybe it was a case of him getting access and then allowing her in (avoiding danger for her). Nifty has Alastor on a leash! Maybe she wants to get into heaven, and is using the hotel as a way of seeing if it is possible? Maybe she didn't kill Adam immediately because she wanted one of the hotel guests to die and therefore see whether redemption is possible. Notice how she doesn't kill Adam until after Pentious' death?

This is a joke theory. But a joke theory that makes a lot of sense.

You know, the idea of Alastor being genuine friends with Nifty and only putting her on a 'leash' because she's into that, him still giving her enough freedom as she desires, is sort of wholesome.

Edited by king15 on Mar 30th 2024 at 11:26:14 AM

I'm going to make a joke of the theory: Alastor owns Niffty's soul, but she has a much looser leash because, in her own words, she likes being forced.

Indeed, being given orders may have been what she wanted out of the deal they made in the first place.

Niffty shares tons of similarities with Al

She's old-fashioned, likes chaos and violence, is sadistic, and is often smiling. That's why she has a closest to him.

On a side note, Al might be lying when he sees Charlie as daughter, but I do legit think he sees Niffty as one. Albeit, a daughter you keep on a leash.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Mar 30th 2024 at 7:29:05 PM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

I have a theory that a plotline in season 2 has Nifty become an overlord basically overnight. Many sinners start willingly signing over their souls to her because they want to serve the person who killed Adam, but she's too obvious to really notice. It would probably tie into the Vee's role as the season's main antagonists.

I like the idea of Vox becoming a Season 3 era Kingpin and concocting an elaborate plan. It probably centers around Niffty.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

I can see a Nifty-focused episode where the Vees try to manipulate her to join their team (and rename her Vifty). She's sort of oblivious and just kind of goes along with it. The people at the hotel begin to realise how much they miss her as she's off with the Vees (with Alastor especially getting angry and planning a brutal revenge on the Vees). The Vees, however, find Vifty such a pain in the ass (she messes up their plans, annoys them, kills their evil henchmen) that they willingly return her at the end.

Episode 2 definitely showed that Vox can be very sinister (just look at the scenes where he's manipulating the masses) that goes along well with his charisma. It just sort of gets overshadowed by his defeat by Alastor and hate-boner for him that the first season focuses on. I definitely imagine he'll be more of a serious threat next season.

Edited by king15 on Mar 30th 2024 at 11:40:16 AM

This sounds hilarious

Though I really hope we see Vox in a far more serious light next season

Like, just to provide a beautiful contrast to Adam

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project