Character Perception Evolution cleanup and maintenance

I mean sure but acording to the old one he was already popular. So, and I am not an expert on this fandom to be clear, are you saying that he is more popular now because people are realizing that he was morally grey? If so, then I would be okay with readding him with a rewrite.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 7th 2023 at 9:16:11 AM

I could either do that or mention how people are noting some aspects of the character have some unfortunate implications, so modern adaptations of story update the character a bit?

I mean, the entry is about the character from the Disney film, right? The character's other adaptations don't really mean anything unless it's specifically adapting the Disney movie.

Otherwise, it doesn't sound like have a clear direction on how, if at all, the audience has changed their minds on the character.

So I’m confused if a character becomes disliked enough in subsequent installments it colors their earlier appearances does it qualify?

Christmas with the Kranks:

• Character Perception Evolution: Luther was initially seen as a grouchy Scrooge-like figure who put his selfish desires above tradition. Now, most people see him as the object of pity because he was harassed, bullied, and publically ridiculed by his community for wanting to go on a cruise with his wife.

I'm skeptical of this example because I'm pretty sure that these complaints (that the movie unfairly demonizes Luther for wanting to go on a cruise) have been around since the movie came out.

Yeah, I've only ever heard people say that the protagonists were in the right.

Found this on the page

• When The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel first came out, Angelica Rogner was seen as a rare positive example of a lesbian character in an Eastern RPG, having some decent character moments in the first game involving an overbearing noble family and being a strong ally in battle. However, as time went on, she saw increased scrutiny for her habit of Skinship Groping other female characters without their consent, which was seen as playing into the stereotype of LGBT people being sexually predatory. The fact that this trait of hers was only exaggerated in later games further solidified her decline in popularity. She has since become a Base-Breaking Character, heavily leaning towards negative to near Scrappydom.

Speaking as someone who played the first game a few years back, I remember being rather uncomfortable with Angelica thanks to her libido and being a rather negative portrayal of queer women in general. The fact this aspect of her is already present in the first entry makes this entry kinda mutt. Plus, the mention of her characteristics being flanderized makes it seem more less of people evaluating the character and more like the uglier traits of said character being front and center.

Found this:

• Injustice: Gods Among Us: Regime Superman was originally seen as an interesting Elseworlds take on Superman for his tragic fall to the dark side and for showing how terrifying the Man of Steel can be if he snapped. However, as time progressed, he has started to get scorn, especially from Superman fans. For starters, some felt that Clark becoming a dictator after One Bad Day made no sense, especially since this version of him had the same virtuous upbringing from the Kents and Jor-El like most continuities. Some have blamed Regime Superman for kickstarting the trend of DC making Superman Darker and Edgier in The New '10s. Another point of contention was how the premise of Superman or an expy of Superman turning evil has become such a cliched setup for dark superhero deconstructions.

Wasn't he always divisive for this stuff. I remember all of these complaints when the game first release.

• Mr. Humberfloob from The Cat in the Hat was originally seen as an overbearing Neat Freak and Mean Boss for his obsessive hygiene based rules. In the wake of the COVID-19 Pandemic, however, his actions (having employees constantly wash hands, firing someone for shaking his hand) are ironically a lot more justified, if still a bit extreme. As such, fans have come around and now say Humberfloob was ahead of his time.

Does this one count, because I'm pretty sure those fans are being ironic?

Uh yeah. He always has.

So, I would be okay to cut it, since nothing about the perception of him has changed?

Edited by Bullman on Oct 14th 2023 at 12:51:03 PM

It seems like the type of shoehorn that the hindsight thread was cracking down on.

Any thoughts on x5 and x6?

I’d say cut both

The Injustice: Gods Among Us entry feels really myopic. That game wasn't remotely the first work to turn Superman evil.

EDIT: 'd

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Oct 15th 2023 at 6:39:46 AM

Okay removed the Injustice one. (Weirdly this one was also not on the YMMV page).

The Cat in the Hat and Christmas with the Kranks weren't crosswicked either.

Tbh im kinda worried now that people are adding these to the main page but not the ymmv because they know if they did the later it would get removed or it was already removed on the ymmv page before this.

I don't know how to test that though?

I think you're overestimating how much people crosswick stuff. Outside the CM and MB thread it's actually very poorly enforced in general, not just for projects but across the wiki.

Is anyone here familiar with Pokemon? Because does this entry need to be so long:

• Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl: When Paul made his debut his reception was largely positive, as Ash lacking a rival was one of the largest complaints lobbied towards Ruby & Sapphire, making fans eager that Ash once again had somebody to consistently challenge and motivate him to get stronger to fill the place held by Gary in the original series. This combined with Paul’s Social Darwinist tendencies and Ash’s Chimchar formerly belonging to Paul was shaping him up as the perfect Hate Sink and an excellent foil towards Ash. Opinions began to sour midway through the series, however, as fans noticed several characters began to speak of the strength of Paul’s character and training methods while completely ignoring his prior abuse of Chimchar, indicating he was never meant to be a Hate Sink like previously assumed. This came off as tone-deaf given his level of Pokémon abuse had been treated as a Moral Event Horizon for characters in prior series, made worse by Ash’s inability to beat Paul until the very end of the series, indicating the narrative was on Paul’s side. The fact that Paul’s motive behind his methods boiled down to getting bitter his brother didn’t complete the Battle Frontier and that the writers utterly failed at making him sympathetic caused opinions of him to sour massively. Black and White, however, swung the pendulum back in a positive direction as Trip was seen as an inferior replacement to Paul despite being relatively nicer, as Trip was seen as a Flat Character whose victories came less from his own skill, but more on reliance on Ash's regression in competence. This caused many to now see Paul's victories and praise as better deserved due to his legitimate skill and had the payoff of forcing Ash to step up and achieve his aforementioned competence. Pokémon the Series: XY furthered Paul's reevaluation when Ash infamously lost to Alain in the Kalos League finals, making him the only major rival Ash failed to ever beat, which increased appreciation for Ash's ultimate victory over Paul. This along with the franchise as a whole shifting its focus away from Jerkass rivals towards Friendly Rival caused diminished quality in challenge and investment in said rivals as character, making the desire for and appreciation of rivals like Paul grow even more. These days, Paul is seen as a strong contender for Ash's best rival such fans were genuinely exited for his return in Journeys, with criticisms of Paul nowadays generally focusing on the writing surrounding him rather than the character himself.

419 words seems long even for a big franchise.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 15th 2023 at 10:37:54 AM

Hi I wrote most of the entry, Paul was already added but I expanded it as I felt the initial entry was inaccurate. The original entry boiled down to hated to liked but in reality Paul was liked at first and opinions only soured later on in DP, however, this added context naturally ballooned the entry. Only way I can think of condensing it is being more vague with stuff like "However Paul began to regain popularity due to how cotraverisal Ash's later rivalries were handled, this along with the franchise shifting its focus towards friendly rivals caused many to miss the fierce competition Paul provided". But that might be too vague, though the section mentioning Journeys can probably go

Edited by Mariofan99 on Oct 16th 2023 at 8:25:04 AM

My problem is that it is boarding on wall of text and a lot of other entries for similar characters are a lot shorter. That said I am not an expert on this fandom either, so I could be wrong.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 16th 2023 at 8:30:18 AM

What would you say should be the max word count for an entry of this trope. I’ll work on condensing it

For a big franchise and character, 250 is right around where I would put it personally.

Edited by Bullman on Oct 16th 2023 at 4:25:13 AM

Though I wouldn't stress too much over exact word-counts. Just trim the fat and see where that gets you.