Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Okay, I struck it. But in case it gets thumped anyway, I am reiterating my upvote for Magolor and Rosalyn.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Woagh
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Magalor, Rosalyn and Saichi
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 29th 2024 at 12:40:49 PM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
He/They
Yes to Magolor
for Magalor and Rosalyn Crozier.
Goku Black
rosayln
Jogo
Rosalyn
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Rosaline
What’s The Work?
Renfield is a comedy horror action film based on the infamous gothic horror novel Dracula, centering on the titular character of the film. Set in the modern day New Orleans, Renfield, played by Nicholas Hoult, has become dissolutioned after decades for his toxic, codependent relationship with Dracula (played by Nicolas Cage). When being in a support group for toxic relationships, and meeting a police officer Rebecca Quincy (Awkwafina), who attempts to take down a large crime operation in the town, Renfield decides to take his steps into becoming a free individual of servitude.
Dracula himself is far FARR from this trope. But let’s talk about one of the secondary villains.
Who is Bellafrancesa Lobo? What Does She Do?
- Played by Shohreh Aghdashloo, Bellafrancesa Lobo is the leader of the Lobo Crime family, who for decades had built an empire based on fear that have completely dominated New Orleans, with Bellafrancesa having used her connections to get away with their crimes, even having the entire police department (apart from Rebecca) on their payroll to get her criminal members as well as her son, Teddy Lobo, out of prison.
- After Renfield massacred several Lobo crime members at a restaurant for trying to kill Rebecca Quincy, Bellafrancesa uses her satellites to track down him to the abandoned hospital, sending her son and goons to kill him.
- After Teddy goes missing, having been recruited by Dracula, Bellafrancesa believes Renfield killed him and, in anger, sends every cop and gang member to find him, tracking them down as she orders them to kill him and Rebecca.
- When Teddy comes, having become a vampire, and introduces Dracula to her and she joins him in his quest to rule the world. She manages to capture Rebecca’s sister, FBI Kate and has her tortured to lure and Renfield to their base before separating them and trapping Rebecca with Dracula.
- However, Rebecca and Renfield save the day as they take down Dracula and Teddy Lobo and Bellafrancesa is knocked down during the battle. After the death of the two, Bellafrancesa is arrested and she takes her defeat in stride, simply saying “touché” at Rebecca and winking as she is led into the cop car.
Is She Magnificent?
Yup, she clears. Bellafrancesa has created a criminal empire for decades on her own and has managed to run it successfully for years using fear and paying off the entire police force. She manages to track down Renfield using satellites and helps Dracula lure in Rebecca and Renfield and separate them, and she takes her arrest calmly and with stride.
Is She A Bastard? Is She Too Much?
Also yes. Bellafrancesa is a feared crime lady who built her operations on being feared, as a whole torture cellar used for her victims and joins Dracula so he can rule the world together. Despite that, she manages to be less evil than her psychopathic and sadistic son Teddy as well as Dracula, a narcissist who brutally mentally abuses Renfield and has numerois kick the dog moments.
Verdict?
Yes
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Yeah, I can see her keeping.
Sure to Lobo.
I will say I myself was terrified Rebirth was gonna go full multiverse, but what it does do is far more interesting.
Yes to Crozier and Lobo.
I've been watching the Invincible cartoon lately and I'm inspired be a recently introduced character to propose their comic counterpart.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Cross-wired freak
to Bella
I'm not sure how I feel about Juno Magolor? I'm a huge magolor fan, and I considered proposing him, but I have two problems. One, the fact that only his boss themes are recorded means we're missing out on a whole game of him acting as friendly mission control to play the characters, which to me brings his magnificence down. Second, the version of CONTROL goes really heavily on the Evil Is Not a Toy elements of the Master Crown and Magolor's hubris, and then the version of "Tree Crown Without a Ruler" has him reclaim agency, but he's also very much The Atoner and sees his previous goals as worthless. He loses his magnificence and is completely not a bastard when he reclaims it, in ways that i thinka re more emphasized than canon
Listen to my podcast
Ok here with a new EP from FF 7 Rebirth. As Polar said while Sephroith and Rufus will count in the future some factors involving them Make it wiser to wait and see on them. This candidate on the other hand I feel has no problem counting right now and if this goes well I will EP the OG version as well so let us begin.
What is the Work?
The Final Fantasy 7 Remake project is a trilogy of games with two titled Remake and Rebirth currently out that retell the story of mercenary Cloud Strife as he and his friends fight against the corrupt Shinra Electric power company and the former war hero Sephiroth who seeks to destroy the planet. However this is not a one for one retelling as other then the clear multiverse elements old characters get more things to do. One being Rufus Shinra the new president of Shinra who while not currently MB does rely much of our candidate for today who is his right hand man, that being…,
Who is Tseng and what has he done?
Tseng is the leader of Turks, who essentially carry out all of Shinra’s dirty work like spying, sabotage, and assassinations. Tseng trains his Turks to be efficient, strategic, value of teamwork, and even be willing to kill their comrades should their duty calm for it. He at some point became loyal to the Vice President Rufus Shinra becoming his most trusted and loyal enforcer to the point of potentially becoming privy to him being part of the Wutai Revolutionarues under the name Saruf. Tseng also was in charge of keeping track of the last living ancient Aerith and to attempt to convince her to willingly come back to Shinra.
While he would be unsuccessful for years he would get his chance in the present day. Under orders from President Shinra (the old man not Rufus) the Turks were ordered to destroy the Sector 7 support Pillar to destroy the the entire Sector. He would transmit the codes to Reno and Rude so they could carry out their mission. Seeing Aerith running around Sector 7 during the chaos to save Maryellen’s Tseng decides to take advantage of the situation to have incoming threat of the plate falling force Aerith to come with them willingly to ensure Marlene’s safety and Aerith does indeed make that deal due to the situation.
Tseng is then seen making contact with Cloud, Barret, and Tifa thanking them for “helping” returning the ancient to them before declaring them condemned. After Aerith’s capture Tseng round get a call from Rufus and prepares for his arrival which would soon be an ascension after the President’s death and Aerith’s Escape with Tseng being the first to acknowledge as the new President. Tseng would then have Rude and Elena track down the Black Robed men and even personally show up to save them from getting killed by Cloud and co and inform them he is not personally pursuing the right now and tells Cloud to “take care of Aerith for him” before shooting at them ti serve as a distraction for Elena to throw a grendade to separate the party from them.
Tseng would then keep track of Cloud, Aerith, and co via Cait Sith as a double agent in the hopes they would lead them to the Promised Land and upon discovering the temple and keystone had the Turks combined with Cait’s betrayal of the party ti give him the keystone allowing them to find the temple. At the Temple of the ancients him alongside Elena fought Aerith, Yuffie, and Red 13 and despite losing the fight managed to escape with the Keystone. However he was stabbed in the the chest by a Sephroith clone however was able to kill the Sephroith clone upon it targeting Aerith. After Confirming Aerith’s safety and the temple not being the Promised like Tseng gets up shrugging off his near fatal stab wound stating “I have a report to make”,.
He would then be helped out of the Temple by his Turks and is alive despite his injuries. This being his last appearance in Rebirth and the OG game (I am pretty sure that he is returning though).
Is He Magnificent? Can he think on his feet?
Absolutely. He is collected and stoic is clearly a very strategic agent as shown in the VR training showing him to be a master of interrogation, infiltration, and adapting to unforeseen circumstances like a betrayal from within. We are shown he knows how to take advantage of opportunities to fulfill his mission as shown by him using the Sector 7 bombing as the push he needed to convince Aerith to come back to Shinra and with Cait Sith as a spy as well. Also unlike he OG who never fights the party he actually fights them at the temple and unlike the OG who just is down for the count after Sephiroth stabs him he kills the clone and gets back up like nothing happened.
So yeah he has got that in the bag
Is He a Bastard? Too much of one?
Well given he carries out all of Shinra’s dirty work including assassinations then yeah he is a bastard. Most notable being him having Reno and Rude carry out the Sector 7 plate drop that killed thousands and unlike those two he shows no remorse for this act. However he is far from too much of a bastard given we have two C Ms also involved with that crime that are much are vile and despite his lack of remorse Tseng isn’t sadistic about the act either and simply views it as something he had to do, in fact during that scene he attempts to help ease Reno and Rude’s conscience with that.
Other qualities that help him is his before mentioned care for his Turks, loyalty to Rufus Shinra, and most notably despite him trying to kidnap Aerith to locate the Promised Land he does seek to genuinely care for her given he asks Cloud to take care of her and shows more concern for her safety then him being near fatally stabbed. So far from too much of a bastard.
Verdict?
Yes to Tseng in my opinion
for Bellafrancesa Lobo and Tseng.
Yes to Lobo and Tseng. Was Reno Adapted Out? I can't verify because I only got a PS 5 recently and haven't played much of FF 7 Remake.
Edited by Klavice on Mar 29th 2024 at 7:31:09 AM
The MILF Virus
Tseng
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Reno's Japanese VA passed away
I reread the effortpost and it looks like Reno has a less major role, likely due to his Japanese voice actor dying as you said.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Lobo and Tseung (I'm interested in hearing about the og now)
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
In regards to Infinite Yoda, one has to ask if this is what mainstream Yoda would do or if this is something that the Jedi Code allows. Yes, the Inferred Holocaust is a Fridge Horror problem, but I'm just curious as how much did Yoda's little stunt break the Jedi Code because even if we assume Coruscant is conveniently empty or full of asshole Imperials who deserve it, it still struck me as bizarrely out of character for a Jedi to consider this to be a viable option.
And there's the fact he still ends up as a Force Ghost despite this.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
And here is another Grand Theft Auto candidate this time from The Lost and Damned, which focuses on Johnny Klebitz, the Vice President of the Lost MC motorcycle clubs who come to blows with the President and his former friend, Billy Grey. Now, time to discuss a candidate.
Who is Thomas Stubbs III? What does he Do?
- An utterly ruthless, self admitting cynical Corrupt Politician who cares about boosting his career as a congressman through manipulative orchestrations.
- Johnny Klebitz meets Stubbs, who is completely naked in a symbolic gesture as he is completely upfront with Johnny over his corruption, and convinces him to work for him under the threat of having his gang arrested. He firsts has Johnny kill off his uncle, Arthur, in order to gain access to his father’s trust fund to boost his political career and manages to get Johnny in and out the airport when it gets swarmed with cops.
- After this, Stubbs has Johnny do many side quests, which include killing and blackmailing his political rivals, releasing a bus-full of convicts that support him and lead them out of Liberty City, all the while he plants this as False Flag Operation in order to get more voters. Despite this, Stubbs shows to be both extremely polite to Johnny and rewards him very handsomely for helping him.
- When getting word Billy Grey is going to testify against Johnny to save himself, Stubbs goes and tips Johnny off and helps him and his gang break into the prison and silence Billy Grey for good, with Stubbs helping out and later congratulating Johnny for the success as the two part ways.
Is He Magnificent?
I’d honestly say so. Dude is both very Affably Evil and a Noble Demon who gets Johnny to commit multiple acts of murder and extortion, getting him out of situations such as his uncle’s death and managing to have Johnny release an entire bus of his support convicts, all to frame these attacks so he can look good to others.
Is He A Bastard? Is He Too Much?
Make no mistake, Stubbs is a ruthless and self centered politician who commits his crimes to ensure his own boost of his career, willing to have people killed or blackmailed for this to happen. However, Stubbs is very much aware of this and doesn’t sugarcoat that he’s a bad person, being fully upfront and never being self righteous or a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing about it, and shows to be very nice towards others no matter who it is and always pays his dues, leaving him not as much as a bastard he seems.
Verdict?
Yuppers!
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Yes to Tseng! Excellent work!
Jogo
Tseng and Thomas
Writeup for Pansy.
- Madame Malfoy Or A Forced Marriage: Pansy Parkinson is Draco Malfoy's calculating mistress who is much more resourceful than in canon. When Madman in the Attic Lucius Malfoy deliriously claims she is his bride and Draco orders her to distract him until Draco fetches the mediwizards, Pansy goes from shock and fear to the development of a plan. She allows herself to be married to Lucius and follows him on his Don Quixote-style quest across Wizarding Britain, playing along with his crazy fantasies and deftly explaining the situation to everyone they meet, sometimes with a mere couple of gestures. Finally, she devises a plan to get Lucius to St. Mungo's and puts it into action with the help of Gringotts goblins. Lucius is subdued but the case is pronounced hopeless. Pansy triumphantly tells Draco that since he never bothered to get his father to a hospital before, her marriage to the latter is valid, but now that Lucius is officially declared insane, Pansy as the wife receives all his possessions. Leaving Draco with only the manor but no money or valuables, Pansy leaves the country for her new villa in the Canaries.
Goku Black
bella, tseng and Stubbs.
It’s not inconsequential if you were paying attention to the story
Regardless you are off topic complaining about this