Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Showtime!
What else do we have to clear from the backlog?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Let's round out the FMA trilogy with three CMs for three MBs.
What's Father doing here?
The Man Behind the Man to the happenings of the plot as one would expect, Father's origins remain the same as in the manga here. Born the "Dwarf in the Flask" hundreds of years back in Xerxes thanks to Hohenheim's blood, Father tricked the avaricious king into drawing the circles of blood needed for the nationwide transmutation circle. Promising him immortality, Father betrayed the king and devoured the souls of the million countrymen, dividing them between himself and a horrified Hohenheim as thanks for bringing him to life.
Founding Amestris, Father sets about grabbing even more power in the name of becoming a god, spawning his Homunculi out of his seven desires and using them to sew chaos, Father even snuffs out seeds of descent by having Lust seemingly back the coup of General Hakuro... only to let him be devoured by the brainless, single-soul zombie-like Homunculus. Meanwhile he promises the "loyal" upper ranks of the military immortality at the cost of helping him with his Promised Day plan.
Much like in Xerxes, Father has "circles of blood"—wars—drawn out in key locations for his plans, including the brutal Ishvalan genocide and later a forced conflict between Amestris' northern Briggs fortress and the neighboring country of Drachma. When the heroes and Hohenheim attack him on the Promised Day, Father absorbs his former friend and forces Pride to use alchemy (something nearly deadly to perform for Homunculi) to create another "human sacrifice" for Father's plan.
Shrugging off the death of his children, Father opens the portal to God's domain to absorb its power and flies into a rage when Hohenheim's countermeasure forces him to release the souls of the millions he just ate in Amestris. Quickly looking to replenish himself, he abandons his favorite son Pride and begins blasting energy through Central, trying to consume all life to power himself until Ed manages to start wearing him down in combat and trickery from his rebellious son Greed weakens his body enough to be vanquished. Like in the original, he briefly begs Truth not to drag him back into the Gate before being sealed away forever.
Heinousness?
Not even a question: Father's devoured a whole country of people, orchestrated multiple genocides, backed a violent coup just to out traitors and temporarily manages to end all life in Amestris.
Mitigating factors?
Any care he had for Hohenheim has long since expired and he tries to remove all the souls keeping him alive within seconds of seeing him again and his children are just tools to him.
Verdict?
Keeps, though lacking in the nuance of the original.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright this would've lined up to be a birthday EP lmao but alas the universe disagreed. Thanks Lighty for giving the EP a polish up.
What is the work?
Hellraiser 2022 is the reboot of the original film based on the novella written by Clive Barker. In it we follow a recovering addict called Riley who has found the Configuration Box. Now, things function a little differently here. The box takes anyone who sheds blood on it, and there's a conspiracy afoot. After Riley's brother is killed by the Cenobites, she tries to investigate just what's happening.
The Cenobites here don't count for reasons of Blue-and-Orange Morality: but there's two characters that viable. Here's one of them, the mastermind of it all: Roland Voight.
Who is Roland Voight and what has he done?
A hedonistic millionaire, Voight is what happens when you give Frank Cotton too much money. Experiencing every sensation and twisted pleasure, Voight got bored of his life and wanted to experience new sensations. Discovering the Configuration Box, Voight solves the puzzle, summoning the Cenobites. Before they could take him to the labyrinth, Voight offers to bring them souls in exchange for sensation. Vought proceeds to lure in sex workers, innocents, homeless people, to trick them into agonizing demises. The Cenobites, once summoned, torture the victim to death, as we see in the intro when Voight offers up a young man. After his final sacrifice, Voight gets the choice of configuration to choose from, with him picking the Liminal one. Instead it "rewards" him by fusing him to a contraption, keeping his nerves being pulled, inflicting a new "pleasure" albeit not the one he desired. Because Voight is an idiot who thinks that asking people who mutilate themselves for kicks to grant him "sensation" is a grand old idea.
Bitter against his situation, Voight plans to trap the Cenobites and summon the Leviathan to free him from his situation. To achieve this, he stages his disappearance and creates a labyrinth to trap the Cenobites. Hiring a thief named Trevor, Voight has him lure victims to the Config Box to lead the Hell Priest, leader of the group, and their allies towards the labyrinth. Weeks later, Trevor lures protagonist Riley and her friends to Voight's estate to be sacrificed, with Voight secretly demanding Trevor to sacrifice them.
In the film's climax Voight summons the Leviathan and traps Pinhead and the other Cenobites, demanding he gets released in return for the Cenobites' freedom. Riley manages to free them however, with the Hell Priest approaching Voight. While Voight begs for his life to be ended, Pinhead notes that the offer's can't be reversed only exchanged for a greater one. Voight, so desperate to be free, makes new deal for "power" and is seemingly released... before Leviathan impales him through the chest and drags him into the Labyrinth. Voight's ultimate fate is shown to be horrifically mutilated and transformed into a Cenobite, stuck to serve the Leviathan for eternity and his mind completely warped to the point of not being Voight anymore.
Trading a lifetime of agony for an eternity of it.
Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nada for Freudian Excuse. Him trying to escape his torment? The bastard sacrificed people before it happened so it's not portrayed tragically, just another hedonistic arsehole with the Cenobites. Maybe the only thing you can say is Voight is legitimately a moron who didn't stop to consider that the androgynous, mutilated being who sticks pins in their face for fun might not consider pleasure the same way he does.
Might as well address these since they'll be the things that people will ask. These are on his character page:
- Even Evil Has Standards: Voight is genuinely disgusted by and calls out Trevor on his cowardice and refusal to use the box as per their deal.
Voight used the box on innocents and is so desperate to be free that he's giving Trevor nothing but abuse and telling him to hurry up. Yeah, real Good Samaritan stuff here.
- Pet the Dog: While explaining what was done to him by the Cenobites, Voight actually cautions Riley against making the same mistake of blindly accepting any of the box's gifts or rewards, warning her that they are either tricks or will be warped by the Cenobites' Blue-and-Orange Morality. His haunted expression and eyes don't leave much doubt that he's being honest, it's the one moment where he doesn't act completely callously or sadistically, and warning Riley about the Cenobites and Trevor doesn't benefit him in anyway. Riley ends up heeding Voight's advice when she rejects the Priest's offer to resurrect Matt.
Now this would be something to be concerned about... except he then takes an offer when he thinks he'll obtain power through it. And his warning of them is because he's determined to save himself from his imprisonment. Saying Riley heeds his advice is a bit of a no-brainer when she witnesses the Leviathan drag him away after the deal is done. By this point, it's nothing but Voight being desperate to talk about his issues and expressing self pity for the mistakes he made.
Heinous Standard?
Thankfully not an issue with this being a reboot. Voight has had countless people be mutilated to gain new pleasures and then had even more people killed to escape from his imprisonment.
Verdict?
Simple but easy keeper.
Thoughts?
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 16th 2023 at 1:45:14 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Sorry to hear you missed the big day for the post Wet but good job refuting the mitigating factors 
With haste, before the opportunity escapes me!
What is the work?
Metal Fight Beyblade is a Merchandise-Driven anime about Beyblades. It features a boy named Gingka Hagane, who drifts the world in hopes of becoming the number one beyblader in the world.
Who is Dr. Ziggurat? What has he done?
Dr. Ziggurat is the Big Bad of the second season, Metal Masters, and the CEO and chairman of Hades Inc., as well as the financial backer of the Dark Nebula.
This gives him indirect culpability for Doji and Ryuga's actions in Metal Fusion (but not Metal Fury, because he's probably dead by then), but he also does even more things this season that make him worthy of the title. As one of the masterminds, this also means he, alongside Doji, was responsible for Ryuga getting corrupted by L-Drago.
Behind the scenes, he runs HD Academy, where he puts his students through the Arrangement System, a torturous and potentially life-threatening process done with the purpose of improving a Blader's skill, at the risk of their mental state and personality being overridden (for example, it is explicitly stated that it turned Jack into a Mad Artist, and most likely amplified Zeo's anger towards Masamune).
In the show proper, he leads the American Team Star Breaker, where he uses the world tournament to gather data for his experiments. He makes several attempts to capture Ryuga after he escapes, harassing him repeatedly by siccing his minions and the members of Team Star Breaker on him and forcing him to battle his men to gather data on L-Drago.
When Team Gan Gan Galaxy, the heroes, win the championship, he crashes the ceremony and interrupts their celebration of their victory by announcing to the world his ultimate invention; Spiral Force, an energy source made with the power of the ultimate Beyblade, Twisted Tempo. Though the power is seemingly a perfectly efficient energy source, he tests it out by destroying a populated area, before announcing his intention to sell it to the highest bidder.
It is revealed that he convinced Zeo to join him by offering to cure his sick friend Toby, when in reality he was manipulating him and turned Toby into his loyal right-hand, Faust, by brainwashing him and completely overriding his free will to do anything but make Twisted Tempo spin.
Any Mitigating Factors?
None whatsoever. While he does appeal towards the potential positive applications of Spiral Force as a renewable energy source, it is clear that this is merely part of the sales pitch, and he also appeals towards its destructive capabilities. He has no good intentions, and is only looking out for his own greed, wanting to line his own pockets by selling it to the highest bidder.
He also shows himself to be a fine example of Faux Affably Evil on a more personal scale than fellow Complete Monster Doji, as while he did cure Toby's illness, this was only so he could brainwash him into his loyal tool, Faust, and he repeatedly uses this as an excuse from Zeo's backlash when the latter calls him out on it, since the deal technically didn't say he couldn't brainwash him after curing him. So, this is not a show of honour, and is in fact proof of a lack thereof.
Though he ends his run on the show fleeing from the scene insisting everything was not his fault, this is not a show of remorse, but rather one of cowardice. Ultimately, he shows no genuine remorse for any of his crimes, only being upset that they went wrong, and in the end was out for nobody but himself and his own greed.
As he uses Spiral Force to make Hades City fly, the heroes give chase. It is revealed that he forced Julian Konzern to work for him after defeating his team in the championship, by stealing all of the Konzern family's shares, leaving him with nothing to his name but his honour if he chooses to work with him.
In an attempt to get even more, better offers for Spiral Force, Dr. Ziggurat attempts to destroy an entire island, uncaring for any people who might be living on it. Though he never successfully pulls this off, the intent was there, so this is still his Moral Event Horizon. Eventually, the heroes reach him, and he taunts them about his plan's success. After his plans backfire on him, with the level of Spiral Force generated going into meltdown levels, and Faust won't stop spinning Tempo because of the brainwashing put on him, however, he flees from the scene, blubbering about how it's not his fault. He is intercepted by Zeo, however, and is knocked out, presumably dying from the fallout as he is never heard from again.
Heinous Standards?
Being more directly involved with the Dark Nebula's dealings with Nemesis, it's easy to think Ziggurat fails the heinous standards to Doji, but Ziggurat's machinations had more or less nothing to do with Nemesis. This means he has fewer resources than Doji due to not having a dark god on his side, and he still stands out for his human experimentation, body count and creation of Spiral Force.
Final Verdict?
Definitely a stronger keep than Doji. If not for his Villainous Breakdown, he'd be an easy keep for a CM/MB crossover, too.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Jan 17th 2023 at 11:46:49 AM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Alright, the approval thread is finally open! And now, it's time for a EP that I've been wanting to do for a long time.
What's the Work?:
Sonic Frontiers is the latest installment of the Sonic the Hedgehog video game series. Starring the titular blue blur himself, Sonic must find a way to rescue his friends, Tails, Amy, and Knuckles on the mysterious Starfall Islands, all the while facing off against a mysterious girl named, Sage, and powerful robots known as Titans, and being assisted by a mysterious voice. However, this voice is no ally, and ultimately turns out to be a powerful and sinister entity known as….. The End.
Who is The End? What does it do?:
The End is a powerful entity of unknown origin that has existed since time immemorial that seeks to destroy all of existence, claiming that it's to establish order and neutrality, but in reality, it's only out of sadistic pleasure. Having destroyed countless stars, worlds, and lives throughout its mission to destroy all of existence, something it takes complete pride in, it eventually attacks the home planet of an advanced ancient alien civilization called the Ancients, who were the ancestors of the Chao and Chaos, as well as the original owners of the seven Chaos Emeralds. Despite the best efforts of the Ancients, The End eventually destroys their home planet, with the surviving members being barely able to escape in time. The Ancients were eventually led to Earth by the Chaos Emeralds, where they found the Master Emerald. They would then proceed to recolonize on the Starfall Islands, preserving their history through Cyberspace and using the emeralds to create incredibly advanced technology.
Sadly, peace was not to last as The End had followed them, intending on finishing the job it started. Upon reaching Earth, it proceeded to attack the Ancients, killing many of them in the process, which are shown in flashbacks, ON SCREEN. The Ancients attempted to fight back with 4 powerful Titan robots, but soon realize that victory was impossible. The Ancient piloting the Supreme Titan decides to infuse The End into his Titan in a effort to imprison it, but this results in The End killing him, possessing the Supreme Titan in the process. The remaining Ancients, however, were able to imprison it in Cyberspace, and activated 6 towers on Rhea Island to prevent it from escaping, with the remaining Titans being used to guard the Islands to reassure it stays imprisoned. The surviving ancients then flee to Angel Island with the Emeralds, leaving The End trapped in Cyberspace.
Many years later, Sonic and his friends arrive to investigate the Islands, only to end up being sucked into Cyberspace, with Sonic being the only one to escape. The End, realizing a opportunity to escape from its imprisonment, calls out to Sonic, and deceives him into thinking he could save his friends by collecting the Chaos Emeralds, destroying the Titans, and shutting down the six towers in order to tear down the wall between dimensions that keep it imprisoned. Sage, who turns out to a creation of Dr. Eggman, as well as his surrogate daughter, finds out about The End and its intentions and attempts to stop Sonic from freeing it, choosing not to tell him about The End's intentions under the belief that the outcome would not change. As he proceeds in his mission to save his friends, Sonic slowly get corrupted by the cyber energy he absorbs from freeing them, which causes some severe pain, something that the End does care about at all.
Sonic is eventually able to destroy the Titans and deactivate the towers, but he then painfully succumbs to the corruption, resulting in his mind being trapped between reality and Cyberspace. Now finally free from its imprisonment, The End declares its intentions to finish its goal of destroying all of existence. Fortunately, Tails, Amy, and Knuckles are able to restore Sonic and bring him back to reality by transferring themselves back into Cyberspace. Forming an alliance with Eggman and Sage, Sonic is able to acquire the seven Chaos Emeralds and transform into Super Sonic, before proceeding to confront the End, who has once again possessed the Supreme Titan. Sonic manages to defeat the Titan, but the End itself flees into space in order to regain its true form. Sonic and Sage, who possesses the Supreme Titan, head to space to confront it. The End, having taken the form of a giant moon, proceeds to fight Sonic and Sage in a Ikaruga-style battle (If you're playing on Hard Mode that is), boasting all of its atrocities and taunting Sonic throughout. After a brutal battle, Sonic ends the fight by blasting through the End, fatally wounding it. It then proceeds to make one last attempt to destroy all of existence out of spite by blowing itself up, but Sage ultimately sacrifices herself to contain the blast, destroying The End and ending its sadistic cruelty once and for all.
Heinous Standard:
Easily passes. It has destroyed countless planets, killing countless people in the process, out of sadistic pleasure. Not to mention we see the destruction of the Ancients' home planet, as well as it killing many of them on the Starfall Islands, ON SCREEN. Oh, and it knowingly allows Sonic to be painfully corrupted by the Cyber energy, and leave him trapped between reality and Cyberspace, all because he outlived his usefulness. No problem here at all.
Migrating Qualities?:
None. It claims it wants to establish order and neutrality, but this is clearly bullshit, as it takes clear sadistic pleasure in killing countless innocent people and being incredibly prideful about it, making it clear that it wants to destroy all of existence simply because it can. It also has clear moral agency, especially with its sadism, being smart enough to deceive Sonic into setting it free, being arrogant with its belief that it's superior than most of Sonic's past enemies, and also being incredibly spiteful, as shown by its attempt to blow itself at the end. Overall, not a single redeeming quality in sight.
Conclusion:
Keeps easily. What do you all think?
Not the Eye
@ Wet, Happy late Birthday . It seems we both miss chance for birthday EP.
@ Iceaura 39, Doji actually is worse then Ziggurat since, well Nemesis. Ziggurat still is more than bad enought for where he is, Great job!
I thought that while Doji is more directly involved in the Nemesis stuff, Ziggurat still deserves some culpability for that since he enables it in a way that can't be overlooked.
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
It may be some culpability but we don't assign as much as the one carrying out the plan with sadistic flourishes since it doesn't sound like Doji just follows the Doctor's plan to the letter. That being said, there's enough additional crimes in the EP I don't have any questions as this juncture.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I have no questions with the E Ps good work folks!
My only thing is, The END is of a much higher power scale compared to the others listed in the games right?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Before I start voting on anyone. Didn't we agree to first propose from works that were scheduled to be discussed during the ban?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Correct. The only one who could be higher is Solaris
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jan 16th 2023 at 6:15:46 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I am curious, why does Mephiles count when Solaris doesn't? When he's literally his mind?
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 16th 2023 at 2:16:52 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Solaris doesn't have enough characterisation to be a Complete Monster, as Mephiles is considered a separate character.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Jan 16th 2023 at 2:17:37 PM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Yeah. It’s just Mephiles
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
How is Voight warning Riley supposed to help him get free from his own imprisonment though?
Also, if Doji's the omnicidal one, and Ziggurat has more resources, wouldn't that be a case AGAINST Ziggurat counting?
Edited by ACW on Jan 16th 2023 at 9:20:13 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Re: Proposals, To my understanding the 'recent' works are encouraged, not forced. Regardless, I did mine to begin.
You could make the case that Ziggurat doesn't have a dark god as a resource.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Well if Riley decided to take an offer, the Cenobites would just disappear after, not letting Voight escape. And the EP notes he subverts it by trying to take the offer when there was the mention of power. Riley would've done it to try and save her brother.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Agreed. I’m asking if I can get to one of mine next page and we allow the backlog to be cleared as a priority
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, fair enough.
Eh, fair enough. So he's more a hypocrite than anything well-intentioned.
Edited by ACW on Jan 16th 2023 at 9:25:51 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
Yeah, we all did kinda agree that we should be focusing on the backlog first over on the restart thread so that it wasn't a complete cluster, but now that some initial chaos is out of the way, I really feel like we should be focusing on that next. It's the agreement we came to on the other thread and now it seems to be a bit out of whack
Not the Eye
Doji did reveal to be a member of conpiracy to ressurect nemesis. While how powerfull they were is never revelated, I actually vaguely remember leader claiming that thay manipulated Ziggurat into creting Spiral force. Still Ziggurat never learned, and with creating and intending to selo spirel force, nasty human experimentation and indiractly backing Doji’s season one crimes. For guy who never had anything directly to do with nemesis or any of more supernatural element of bayblade world, he does enought.
It’ll take me a few days here, but I’ll have Don’t Worry Daring, the English, Black Adam, Critical Role, Bayonetta and my others up soon. Just asking for patience with the new rules!
Ooh, I've got an EP. I'll post it here soon, now that we're on another page.
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.