Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Gemini IS...a Complete Monster.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Not!Darkseid
What is the work?
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon- Evil ending is a video by PMD Gang showing what would happen if the hero and partner joined Darkrai's side.
Who is Darkrai and what does he do?
Darkrai confronting the hero and partner convinces them that there is no way to win and to join his side to rule over the world in darkness and unlike in the main game they actually agree. Ordering them to kill Cresslia he tells them to kill everyone in Treasure town seeing them as a threat to them. After do the deed Darkrai converses with team that it is time wipe out the few that still stand against them and the creation of a new world.
Going to the top of Temporial Tower he confronts Dialaga and Palkia telling them he will spare their lifes if they surrender. Not accepting the offer Palkia and Dialga bring out Grovyle, Celibi, and Dusknoir as back up and only reacting at finally seeing a fair fight. Declaring he will seize control of the darkened world and start a fight to the death.
After all their enemies fall Darkrai praises them for ridding their enemy and that the world can finally be their's only for both the hero and partner to kill Darkrai, and for the the hero to kill their partner.
Redeeming qualities? Is he bad enough?
This is the same Darkrai that made a future so horrible that Grovyle, and those he worked with were fine with basically erasing them selfs and even those that didn't want to die like Dusknoir, and driving pokemon insane there for no reason just so he can make the world his preferred nightmarish world to rule.
Trying to drive the hero and the child partner suicide and sicking Palkia on them by somehow convicing Palkia that two pre evolved pokemon including a kid distorted space while looking like Cresslia. And in this video ordering the hero and partner to kill everyone in treasure town with only Maril alive grieving over his dead sibling.
His "change of heart" is due to losing his memory and the hero saying at the end of the original game that all pokemon including Darkrai belong is their their view.
Cresslia does say he will betray them, and while he never does and isn't hinted to plan on betraying them, and he does praise them when they do their job saying they will rule the world together it is mainly to keep the end of their end deal and being professional with it being done after convincing them they have no other choice.
Verdict
You decide
Edited by umaprasis on May 8th 2024 at 3:40:46 AM
Insert title here
Gemini, Darkrai
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Gemini and Darkrai
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wait, I wanna know more about Darkrai praising them.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Darkrai simplely acknowloges to them that have done their job well.
Edited by umaprasis on May 8th 2024 at 4:24:28 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, sure to him then.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
The Draftsman of Doom
Sure to Darkrai and Gemini.
to Darkseid's twin Gemini, Darkrai
Harbinger of Cringe
So... here's a candidate I have sat on for quite awhile now but never made any moves on actually proposing. But I figured I'd give it a go as I was just reminded of them recently. It's another Stupendium candidate everyone! (Seriously what is with them and making vile, irredeemable characters?) and this is one you might not have been expecting, as honestly? Neither did I.
What is the Work?
"FAZBEAR FAMILY is a Freddy Fazbear's Pizzeria Simulator song created by The Stupendium. The song revolves around the events of the game told to us through a narrator as they explain to us how to keep their new Fazbear Restaurant running as well as cleaning up any "fleshy debris" left behind. Despite the goofy tone of the song, it's all to hide the true horrors that hide within, one of which being a particularly violent animatronic bear. Who also happens to be our candidate for today's proposal.
Who is Molten Freddy? What has he done?
Molten Freddy is a minor antagonist in the song. Formerly Funtime Freddy who has since become the leader of a wirey amalgamation. Molten Freddy is lured into Freddy Fazbear's Pizza Place with the promise of causing carnage, and carnage he gets. Using the ballpit as his hunting ground. He captures unsuspecting victims and proceeds to mutiliate them before leaving their rotting limbs within the ballpit for the owner of the establishment to clean up. Upon noticing said owner trying to fend them off, Molten Freddy attempts to go after them through the vents so that he can "give them a friendly hug". Ultimately, the song ends the same way the canon ending of Fnaf 6 does, with everything going up in flames, Molten Freddy themselves even asking "is it hot in here or is it just me?" leading to his presumed demise.
Mitigating Factors?
Molten Freddy's overall screentime is incredibly short. He has one short song segment to himself, and a line at the end. With all that said, the song does more than enough to characterize him. His single segment in the song shows him to be hyperactive and aggressive who likes to use "parties" and "hugs" as euphemisms for killling people. He is also shown to be very brutal and sadistic with his kills with how he literally mutilates the children he captured. So overall, despite his short screentime, I would say he has enough characterization.
Now in terms of any actual redeeming qualities? Nah not really. Sure he's a robot made by William Afton, but like in canon, nothing really implies he doesn't understand right and wrong. Plus with lyrics such as "I think we all know the direction this is going in" I think that makes it apparent that he knows what he is doing and isn't just some mindless machine.
He is technically a version of Ennard, but the other Funtimes aren't even mentioned here and it's made pretty clear that Molten's actions are his own. And while he does mention Bon Bon once, all he says is "Hey Bon Bon! It's the birthday boy!" And nothing else. No implications that he cares for the handpuppet, no nothing.
Plot also isn't a concern here either considering the song itself tells an abridged version of Fnaf 6's story and even explores other elements, like the tragedy behind Elizabeth's character. Plus the song ends with the bad guys dying, so there's that too. We also actually get to see Molten Freddy's crimes before our very eyes, and this song is also pretty clearly part of the same canon as Stupendium's other Fnaf songs. So yeah, no plot concerns here.
As for whether Molten is taken seriously? While he does have a funny line at the end, and while the song itself has a generally black comedy tone. Molten's actions themselves are still taken seriously and not played for a joke, so I wouldn't call that a problem either.
Heinous Standard?
For a character who has barely has a minute of screentime, Molten Freddy is a seriously vile character. Through the ending portions of the songs, we can see that Molten has captured and mutilated at least six victims (with there being six limbs seen strewn about in Molten's brief shots in the last segments of the song). Which already puts him on pretty similar ground to William Afton himself. And this was all done by a oneshot character who never appears again after this song.
Maybe you could argue that weight could be a problem. But the song itself is all about cleaning up the literal dead remains of humans in your pizzeria, with one of the lyrics even directly mentioning the ballpit.
"Just check the ballput for any fleshy debris!" And another thing to note about this lyric in particular, we also see a bloody hand sticking out of the ballpit, so yeah, overall I wouldn't say this is a problem either considering the song itself is about dealing with killer robots, cleaning up their messes and stopping them from killing you.
Verdict?
Admittedly could see this one going either way, but I still wanted to give it a go. Hopefully this is the last Stupendium candidate for awhile. Even I'm staring to think it's getting too much :P
My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
Goku Black
gemini
Memetic Loser Mother
to Gemini and Darkrai
The Draftsman of Doom
Sure to Actually abstain on Molten Freddy given the below point.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 8th 2024 at 9:03:23 AM
Woagh
to Gemeni.
Abstaining on Molten Freddy, the fact there are two other serial killers there with more screentime than him isn't really helping him stand out.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
A coupla mammals makin' gravy
A yes to Gemini. And mine, from the episode "Island of the Body Snatchers":
What has Circe done?
- An evil sorceress who makes her home in the ruins of what used to be London, Circe is kept from leaving her island due to a curse; she will be Taken for Granite if she ever leaves the island. But this curse only affects her body; if she transplanted her mind into the body of another young sorceress, she'd be able to leave.
- For 500 years, Circe uses her powers to maroon ships and dash them on the coast of the island to trap their crews. Inevitably, there are no magicians among her victims, so Circe just petrifies them and begins again with the next ship. Over five centuries, Circe has wrecked dozens of ships and turned hundreds of people into stone; the entire island is a graveyard, strewn with countless human statues.
- When Thundarr and his magical ally Princess Ariel are marooned, Circe quickly chooses Ariel as her victim. Swapping minds with her, Circe leaves Ariel's mind in her own body, then—in Ariel's body—tries to trick Thundarr into striking down Ariel (and thus getting rid of her old body). When Thundarr wises up, Circe leaves him and Ookla in a death trap, paralyzing Ariel so she'll be Forced to Watch the death of her friends...and then stay that way, forever paralyzed on the island, alongside all of Circe's other victims. Thankfully, Thundarr manages to swap Ariel and Circe's minds back just as Circe is escaping the island...
- ...resulting in the curse coming true and Circe turning into lifeless stone.
- Hah, no.
- The one potential nip is that Ariel manages to un-petrify all of Circe's victims at the end, but the way it's portrayed this isn't a case of generic, easily-reversed villainy (like Skullus, for example, or any of the other villains who engage in transforming innocents to a Forced Transformation). The petrification is explicitly a Fate Worse than Death, and not only has Circe kept many of her victims in this state for centuries, she clearly intends (and very nearly does) to leave every single one of her victims like that upon leaving the island, forever.
- In this way, Circe is easily bad enough. She has one of, maybe the biggest victim count in the entire show. Circe has been marooning ships and petrifying their crews for five centuries, and her final plan for Ariel is back-to-back with Gemini's final plan for Thundarr in terms of "worst fates planned for the heroes."
Edited by Starkrafty on May 8th 2024 at 6:37:47 AM
Now we're cookin'! While nobody's lookin'! We're family! Culinarily!
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Circe.
Curious: Was she always evil and that's why she was cursed?
Edited by ACW on May 8th 2024 at 8:49:36 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
circe
Edit : I mean
Edited by miraculous on May 8th 2024 at 5:49:28 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
A coupla mammals makin' gravy
@ACW: Yep.
Now we're cookin'! While nobody's lookin'! We're family! Culinarily!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, well then, that makes my yes even easier.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
Circe
And now to follow up Galtar, we have Thundarr the Barbarian, which is set in the far future After the End, in a world where science is akin to magic and the warrior Thundarr travels the lands with the sorceress Princess Ariel and their animalistic ally Ookla.
Almost the entire show is one-off adventures with a unique villain for each, but there's one baddie who appeared in two episodes as the closest thing to an Arch-Enemy of Thundarr:
Who is Gemini? What has he done?
Mitigating features?
None, this show ain't exactly high art and Gemini is a hella basic "rawr, power, victory will be mine" sort.
Heinousness?
So this show has an interesting issue...many villains implicitly threaten villages of innocents, but Never Say "Die" kicks in with a few of them. The villain Skullus, for instance, brainwashes a village into being his Cannon Fodder for a war with another wizard, but there's little talk of actual death; the Stalker is a space vampire who kidnaps dozens of people implicitly to feast on them, but there's no solid indicators that's what gonna happen.
So what makes it for the 3 villains who do qualify? The threat of death is made very, very clear, and the attempted bodycount also far surpasses 90% of the other villains.
With all that in mind, Gemini passes with flying colors between trying to destroy the human population of episode 1; enslaving the Groundlings; nearly burying a train of people alive; and then then attempting to very explicitly trap Thundarr in a statue for all eternity.
Final Verdict?
Keep!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!