Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes. Lawrence may be responsible for his existence but Damien still did an awful lot of damage on his own.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Whately and Blood and Eye leaders
Might have my own Fallout CM and MB up soon, through both are from separate fan mods and not official in any capacity.
I wonder through, apart from certain characters that may be effortposted in from the TV series, any other characters from the games we're going to look into?
Ultron, for once, I am suprised that we didn't get yet another Senate effortpost. Yes I know that the Marvel villains shift the HS big time but I've been so used to Palps/Sidious/Sheev/Senate effortpost #9812383128912389 every time SW is brought up.
Edited by xie323 on Apr 24th 2024 at 7:19:48 AM
Well, Palpatine is confirmed to be the next major villain in the story and Ultron is dead so…
Just a starting content creator
Can I propose potential quotes for the Parkour Champion now, or should I wait until the three day waiting period for the effortpost is up?
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Alrighty here’s a simple one from a weird ass game
What’s The Work?
Chicken Feet is a survival horror game by Dylan Bassett, featuring a giant killer chicken. Yes, really. You play as an intern for GOOBER Laboratories, a well known place for it’s genetic engineering, which is attacked by a giant mutating chicken. Helped by “Sargent Corey” the intern goes deep in the facility to catch the chicken, but finds that there’s more underneath this.
Who is Eric? What Does He Do?
- The head of GOOBER Laboratories, Eric is reveal to be a demented Mad Scientist who all but said to have turned a friends of his into a giant mutated chicken, Cooper, leaving it in a state of “anger and pain” as he tested it.
- It’s also revealed to lead Project Rebirth, where he created an Artificial Human by experimenting on a newborn baby for 20 years, creating Sebastian, a horrific looking man who is in pain and suffering constantly. A tape recorder reveals his intentions to continue experimenting on another newborn, regardless of what his team, the doctors or even the mother said For Science!.
- When Cooper escaped containment, Eric sends out intern after intern, completely callous of them dying from Cooper as he leads the protagonist down, disguised as Sargent Corey as he pretends to help him, in truth waiting for Cooper to be caught so he can kill the protagonist anyway.
- However, with the help of Sebastian, the protagonist manages to incapacitate Cooper and lead Eric out. Eric is close to killing the protagonist before Sebastian comes out and shoots Eric to death in anger and Mercy Kill Cooper for him to be in peace. However, Sebastian proceeds to kill himself due to being a human, just like Eric.
Mitigating Factors?
Despite the absurdity of a giant killing chicken, the story itself is genuinely played straight with Sebastian and Cooper’s situation played with genuine weight, and Eric’s villainy is at full front.
Nothing redeeming at all. He’s purely Faux Affably Evil who is simply a crazed scientist looking for perfection. Simple.
Heinous Standard?
He’s turned one guy into a mutant and crazed chicken and experimented on someone for 20 years into a deformed and pained Artificial Human, with plans to continue his process with a another child and has interns sent out to die from Cooper as he planned to do away with the protagonist. Simple.
Verdict?
Yes to Eric
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Having played Cold War myself I thought about making an EP for Barinsky before, but then a cut scene happened that made me hesitate.
So I checked said cut scene again and there's this part where he gloats about his plan and Sonya calls him mad to which he responses:
The thing that makes me believe he's not just a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist is the one line about how “our people are starving”. That does sound like he really believes that his actions are for the best of the people despite all his Evil Gloating about blowing up a nuclear power plant in the very same cut scene.
Yes, I also thought about the possible good intentions of Barinsky's actions, but his successful destruction of Chernobyl and later attempt to blow up Moscow both invalidate his words, at least to me. This is open to debate of course, but to me, Barinsky is about as "well-intentioned" as Light Yagami or Hugo Strange - in an utterly crazy, narcissistic, and delusional way.
I guess his Motive Rant may leave room for Alternative Character Interpretation, but it may not disqualify him from being a CM.
Edited by Thermal7 on Apr 24th 2024 at 8:32:00 AM
Not the Eye
Eric
I think im still good with Barinsky. “People are starving” line does give me pause, but nuking Moskov out of spite and killing milions of Soviet people really dosen’t sell me into idea that he cares about country anny other way than hypocritical Knight Templar.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 24th 2024 at 9:07:45 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Eric. You forgot to add to the pending.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
barinsky and Eric.
Going to Abstain on Barinsky
But for Eric
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Eric.
Mullet Madjack comes out in three weeks, so I'm gonna go ahead and snag that.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
for Colonel Badinsky and Eric.
Delusions of Grandeur (machinima) is a machinima series filmed within Smash Melee for the original, and Ultimate for the remake. This post covers the remake and it's prequel movie, The Demon of Delusion.
It stars Mewtwo as he and the other smashers investigate Fox's disappearance after the latest in a long string of tournament losses. He and the others eventually discover that Fox has turned evil and has brainwashed many of the fighters. Fox is defeated and exiled, but he didn't do all that by himself. There's a bigger threat who has been pulling Fox's strings...
Who is Razanak? What has he done?
Razanak is a demon who has devastated many worlds prior to the events of the series. His MO for doing so? Finding someone who he can latch onto and serve as The Corrupter to, egging on and feeding their worst traits so that they will commit horrible acts. If need be, he will also possess his current quarry and use them as a Meat Puppet to fulfill his objectives.
In The Demon of Delusion, Razanak approaches the recently disinherited Prince Arulo of Drochal and offers his assistance in helping him reclaim the throne. Though Arulo is initially skeptical for obvious reasons, Razanak is able to convince the prince that he intends to help and gets the prince to murder his father so that he can claim the throne. When that scheme fails, Razanak then suggests that he amass an army to take the throne by force, which Arulo gleefully agrees to do and the two go around to build an army, with the two of them brainwashing the barbarian army and a group of Drochallian soldiers with Razanak's power.
The two later attack Drochal with the army and kill the soldiers defending it, as well as many civilians, with Arulo killing the members of the Royal Court and his sister. After the fact, when Arulo confronts Razanak about how his kingdom is now a pile of burning rubble, the demon slowly but surely breaks down all of the prince's excuses and deflecting, convincing him that he alone is responsible for Drochal's destruction, nevermind the fact that Razanak egged Arulo on in the first place. After Arulo collapses in tears out of regret for what's done, Razanak gives some mock sympathy before killing him, sarcastically remarking that he was almost a perfect puppet.
In Delusions of Grandeur itself, Razanak latches onto Fox, who is very bitter about his continual losing streak at the Smash tournaments in recent years. Razanak then gives Fox the ability, and idea, to brainwash others, which he uses to get the fighters who's victories offended him under his power before confronting the remaining fighters at Hyrule Temple and siccing the brainwashed fighters on them, where they fight with an intent to kill their allies if need be. Fox duels with Mewtwo but in the process gets Pichu killed.
After Fox is foiled, he's banished to Final Destination where Razanak starts directly speaking to him as he tries to get them to escape. Unfortunately for him, Fox feels intensely guilty for getting Pichu killed and resists Razanak's attempts to bring them back until he takes forcible control of his body and makes them escape. Then trying to kill Mewtwo with Fox's body, which is foiled, Razanak takes control of Roy and tries to kill Mewtwo, Fox and the other heroes before being foiled again. When they try to take the challenge to Razanak at Final Destination, he accepts their challenge, though not before brainwashing every fighter except Mewtwo and Fox and forcing the two of them to fight them all before directly taking them on himself. The two are able to kill him, though Fox dies of his wounds right after.
Freudian Excuse or mitigating qualities?
Nope. He's a demon but is never implied to have impaired agency, and he never displays anything close to a redeeming quality.
Heinousness?
Admittedly he's less heinous in Delusions of Grandeur itself than in the original version, but the Demon of Delusion buffs up his rapsheet considerably by making him responsible for the fall of Drochal's capital city and the deaths of those that lie within, as well as giving more credence to him having devastated dozens of worlds before. Arulo did willingly accept his help in reclaiming the throne, but he would never have taken the actions he did without Razanak prodding him, not to mention that the army would not be able to be formed without Razanak's brainwashing abilities.
It's much the same in Delusions of Grandeur, with none of Fox's scheme able to happen without Razanak giving him the power and idea to brainwash others. Add on the fact that Pichu, a child, dies from this with the others in very real danger of dying as well, he's bad enough.
Verdict?
Keeper, just as in the original.
Not the Eye
Jogo
Razanak
Edited by jlvs200s on Apr 24th 2024 at 8:37:16 PM
"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him
King of the Koopas
So doc Ock got cut Man, it’s really hard to find Complete monster of doc Ock oh and happy birthday to me yep that’s right today’s my birthday I thought I get this crossover candidate since it’s a much more solid keeper.
Whats the Work?
The Mermaid and the Genie is a Disney fanfiction by a guy called the Z-King that involves the genie from Aladdin appearing in the little mermaid film
When Flounder discovers his lamp at the bottom of the sea shortly after Triton destroyed Ariel’s human collection Ariel gets a hold of the lab and uses her first wish to become human rather than making a deal with Ursula
Because of this, she retains her voice upon becoming human which allows her relationship with Prince Eric to progress much more smoothly but there’s no way that’s gonna happen hoho not if a certain sea witch has anything to say about it
What’s Ursula up to here?
Having just found out that Ariel got a magic lamp Ursula has her eels Flotsam and Jetsam keep an eye on her for any future opportunities.
Ursula has her eels disturb Ariel and Eric like in the film to get the lamp when that fails Ursula decides to take matters into her own tentacles.
Disguising herself as one of the Maids instead of Vanessa like in the film Ursula gets ahold of the Lamp and forces Genie to grant her first wish of becoming the ruler of all the ocean.
Ursula then confronts King Triton and after stealing his trident uses it on the gaurds and his six daughters to force them to bow to her.
Ursula then makes her second wish to have all the power in the world and transforms Triton into a plop like in the film but decides to leave the trident and makes her own while at the same time remaking Atlantica in her own image.
The Sea Witch then turns the rest of Tritons daughters into servants doing untold damage to the ocean.
Ursula then raises the castle from the ocean making an announcement that all must make tribute.
Ursula decides to make all of humanity bow before her.
Ariel Eric and cohorts sneak in the Palace to get back the lamp but Ursula catches on to them and orders Genie to kill them ignoring the fact he can’t kill anyone.
Luckily though Ariel with help from one of her sisters gets the lamp back leaving Ursula to get transform into a plop undoing the damage done by her and living happily ever after.
Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Qualities?
Well unlike the film Flotsam and Jetsam are Spared by the Adaptation which leaves Ursula’s relationship with them ambiguous even when she’s pleading for their help after being defeated.
Heinousness?
Commits all the same shit he did in the film up to disguising herself as a maid to to steal genies lamp using her first wish to become a ruler of all the ocean transforms Triton into a plop enslaves Ariel’s sisters doing untold damage to the ocean and Eric’s kingdom then tries to get Genie to destroy Triton only to do it herself and do the same to Ariel.
Final Verdict?
Third times the charm for this poor unfortunate soul.
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Razanak.
Now that I think about it, the work should probably go under Video Games Fan Works.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Dagded Dujardin
Razanak
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Ursula, how detailed is this "untold damage"?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah I agree, it's not like Red vs. Blue where the cast is entirely original and the series very separate from Halo itself.
I'll wait for an answer to ACW's query before voting, but happy birthday regardless.
King of the Koopas
Sebastian explicitly says that Ursula could could do untold damage to the ocean after he finds out that she got ahold of the Lamp. It says so in the 5th chapter.
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"Ursula has the lamp! She could do untold damage to the whole ocean! Or worse she might-"
That seems...a little too vague for my liking.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Woagh
to Razanak.
Honestly going ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Ursula, from what i'm reading most of her crimes are bog-standard and if we're only told she's doing damage to the ocean rather than shown it than that's Offscreen Villainy.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 24th 2024 at 12:55:30 PM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Honestly, it's not even offscreen that's the main issue for me. If it was something like "She could kill everyone" or something I'd at least consider it, but not with something so vague.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@ACW: Bob Garrison got two s, one , and two unsure votes. I think I can declare him a unless anyone else wants to chime in.
My personal opinion is if compared to t-mitts's fics, if compared to the CSI Verse as a whole.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Apr 24th 2024 at 3:00:51 AM
