Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Being "enigmatic" shouldn't be much of an issue. The Room has clearly a sadistic personality expecially when it uses the "phone operator"'s voice.
Well, I searched up "complete monster proposal 1408" and got nothing.
I don't know how this will go, but I cooked this up regardless.
What is the work?
1408 is a horror film from 2007, based on a short story (which I haven't read) by Stephen King. It's about Michael Enslin, a man who goes around writing about supposedly paranormal locations that end up having no ghosts or anything like that. Until he is recommended to go to Room 1408 of Dolphin Hotel.
Our candidate is right in the title.
Who is Room 1408? What does it do?
Room 1408 of the Dolphin Hotel is haunted, alive and sadistic. Accurately described as an "evil fucking room" by the hotel's manager Gerald Olin, everyone who ever spent an hour in this room died, either by suicide or other means like drowning in a bowl of soup. Even someone who spent just some moments there ended up blinding herself with a pair of scissors. Olin has a book full of photos and info on these past victims, amounting to 56 deaths. Olin rejects Michael's requests to be given the key to Room 1408, and even when he finally gives in, he refuses to accompany the writer into this horrible place.
When Michael enters it, things seem normal at first, boring even. Soon enough, the room begins to show its true colors, screwing around with him before closing a window on his hand and spraying scalding water on him when he tries to tend to the wound. From this point on, Room 1408 begins to psychologically torture our protagonist, locking him within itself and being unhelpful when he calls for help. The thing makes it personal when it begins tormenting him by showing him his daughter Katie, who died previously of an illness, which culminates in it bringing her back to him, only to "kill" this vision of her again. The room gives him a countdown of an hour, which is how long its victims didn't last, these previous victims it uses as phantoms to try and kill Michael directly as well, or to show them killing themselves. In one trick, Room 1408 seems to let Michael chat with his wife Lily, only to take control from him and make it look like he wants her to go to the horrible room as well, with the image of the fake Michael winking at the real one as a taunt.
Late in the film, the room makes it seem as though Michael is free, only to reveal that he is still trapped. After the previously-mentioned moment with Katie, Michael wakes up again, and the room restarts the timer. It offers him a chance to leave.....and that means making him kill himself, with the room even showing him his own grave and corpse. When he rejects this, it taunts him that he will never leave before saying it killed his friends. In the end, Michael sets fire to the room, and no matter which cut of the film you watched, the room burns down.
Heinousness
Killed 56 people, with an M.O. involving psychological torture, which is demonstrated by our protagonist. While the 56 victims are offscreen, the amount of evidence given for it, Olin's book and all, makes it avoid offscreen villainy.
Mitigating Factors
This is ultimately the issue with Room 1408. Most of it is shrouded in mystery, with it barely speaking, its origins being completely unknown, and the idea that the haunted stuff isn't real. However, this thing's malevolence is clear from what little dialogue it gets in the form of the phone conversations, along with it taunting him when taking his image. It is obviously a sadist, and is enjoying its twisted game. The whole "killed your friends" taunt even shows signs of a Villainous Breakdown.
As for the idea that this is all in Michael's mind, the fact that the recording device had the audio from the whole event suggests that it was real.
Verdict
I honestly don't know.
—signature not found—
Just a starting content creator
1408 reminds me of Silent Hill in a lot of ways. It psychologically torments anyone who gets snared in it, but it's pretty vague just how alive it is and whether or not it has any moral agency or actual control over what it does. The town is even able to make living, thinking manifestations of others' psyche, but how real they are is strongly up for debate, like Maria. I'm going with no for 1408, using Silent Hill as a measuring stick.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Woagh
Yeah, i don't think we're suppose to slap a character on what is essentially a haunted room, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to The Room.
The Draftsman of Doom
Unsure on 1408.
Rawr.
I'd personally vote ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the 1408 for the fact that it's a sentient being and loves to mess with people in order to driving'em to madness suicide. We see signs of its sentience when it's in "Phone operator" persona and when he takes the form of Enslin's doppleganger to taunt him. It reminds me a little The Overlook Hotel and The Mirror.
Goku Black
Nah the silent hill comparison I think is valid. If we know nothing about this thing. Assuming it has agency I feel is maybe too much.room
Nay to the room
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Just a starting content creator
Again, using the town of Silent Hill as a measuring stick, it's possible to find this message in SH 2.
"If you ReaLly wAnt to
sEE Mary, you shOUld just DiE.
But You mIght be hEadiNg to
A diffErent place than MARY,
James."
This is another example of an Eldritch Location directly addressing and mocking the protagonist. If this doesn't count, I don't think 1408 should, either.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Apr 18th 2024 at 11:45:43 AM
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Wenner, Rothman, Room 1408
Gonna give a for Room 1408, agreeing with the Silent Hill comparison.
I'm on the fence here. But the room does directly communicate with the protagonist via the voice on the phone and seems to enjoy tormenting him. For me that's enough to give 1408 an .
Finished the main campaign and side quests for Final Fantasy XVI's Rising Tide DLC. PM me for any CM details.
I think I'll abstain on Room 1408.
Okay, I think I’ve got another candidate and a point of warning, it’s a bit of a disturbing one. FBI: Most Wanted is a series that we’ve gotten several memorable keepers. Season five’s “Hollow” involves the team travelling to the small indigenous Akwesana reservation near the Canadian border on the trail of a brutal Serial Killer.
Our candidate of course being said serial killer, I give you Hank Fuller.
Who Is he:
A local fisherman and overall nobody, Fuller had previously applied to join the Native police force multiple times only to be turned down on account of his records for assault and battery.
However, all that changed when Fuller discovered he had cancer, and following a twisted interpretation of the works of the Swiss Renaissance physician, philosopher and alchemist Paracelsus, he became the Hollow Man, a cannibalistic serial killer in the belief it would cure him.
What Does he Do:
A month after his diagnosis, and thus being forced to return from Alaska to Akwesana, Fuller took to preying on young, petite Mohawk women, using the local Rural Medical Service to select victims that definitely possessed healthy organs. Fuller would then carefully run their licence plates through several database servers to find victims who had no families and no one who would notice them missing until it was too late.
His MO was that he would slash his victim's back tire with a knife to create a slowly growing puncture, then subtly follow in his truck, and play the good Samaritan when they broke down, offering to give them a life back into town. Once he had abducted them, Fuller took them out to a remote hunting cabin he was renting.
Then for two days, he would force-feed his victim's laxatives and water, until he was sure they were completely cleaned out. Afterwards, he would slit their throats, then hang their bodies upside down in his shack to extinguishant the blood, and get to work removing their organs, the brain, heart, stomach, liver, pancreas, gallbladder etc.
Which he would then take home, cook and eat, under the belief the diet would cure him of his cancer.
He abducted and murdered his first victim Brianna Culpbert in September after his diagnosis, and then over the winter did the same to at least three more women, Ally Woodrose, Lilly Yorn and Rieley Lawton. All their bodies he simply dumped by the nearby St Regis river.
With spring approaching the RMS was back in town, as his cancer was continually getting worse, Fuller resumed his spree, murdering at least one poor young woman, before spying upon Maya Holt who was seven months pregnant. Thus Fuller decided to make Maya his next victim so that he could eat the most nutrient-rich organ the human body could provide, the placenta.
Abducting her, Fuller forced Maya to enter the store to buy his supplies and rent his cabin, warning her that if he even got a hint she tried to warn the desk clerk, he would butcher them both. However, Maya thankfully managed to smuggle a cry to help, which got the FBI and Sheriff Whitehawk on their trail.
In the cabin, Fuller attempted to force-feed Maya the laxatives, but taking advantage of one of his coughing fits, she fought back and managed to escape, with the angry Fuller chasing her with a knife. They ran outside right as the heroes arrived, thus forcing Fuller to run into the forest with Remy, Sheryl and Nina in pursuit.
Getting to his shack, Fuller was able to get hold of his hunting rifle and engaged in a brief firefight with the agents, before Nina shot head dead.
Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:
A couple of things to discuss, but nothing that I think is disqualifying.
Now first and foremost, despite the fact his plan was kind of insane, there is nothing in the episode to suggest that Fuller is legitimately delusional. His plan was honestly very meticulous. The team likewise bring up the fact there is a long history of even rational people attempting to cure cancer through pseudoscience.
Second, it is brought up that Fuller was neglected and starved by his mother to the point he had to be taken away from her and grew up in care. When he briefly talks about her to Maya, he does briefly look like he’s on the verge of tears, making it clear that her abuse did a number on him.
However, whilst it might go to explain how he became a sociopath, it's got so little involvement with his present crimes I don’t think it's disqualifying.
Apart from that there is nothing, Fuller doesn’t have any close relationships and is presented as a vicious, misogynistic psycho, he even mockingly talks to Maya about how good it feels to have the power of life and death within the palm of his hands.
Heinous Standard:
Okay, now the franchise has had a number of serial killers at this point. It is never confirmed exactly how many victims Fuller has, partially down to his efforts to find victims people won’t notice if they go missing. We know he’s done this to at least five different women, however, there are at least fourteen different pictures of license plates in his lair (though it's not confirmed if he went after all of them).
However, even going by his confirmed body count, fuller has one of the most twisted M Os of any serial killer in the series. His only rival in that regard is Robert Burke (who is of course already a keeper). Most serial killers in this show generally have low body counts and near-immediate kills. There was one other guy who trapped women in toy chests to slowly suffocate, but he only succeeded in killing one person.
Conclusion:
I mean they are a cannibalistic serial killer, who hold their victims prisoner to clear out their insides, so they can eat their organs. What more is there to say?
So, what do you think?
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 18th 2024 at 12:55:52 PM
Goku Black
hollow man.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Hank and tentative to the Room if it taunts its victims
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm thinking yes. Granted, it's post-mortem cannibalism, but I think he's still nasty enough.
Though that said, how common are serial killers? If they're fairly common, and have 5+, that may be an issue.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Around a dozen from memory. Most max at 1-3. Other than Burke. Theirs only one guy who did more at 7. Even toy box dude only has 2.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 18th 2024 at 12:50:11 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Current mood: sick of your shit
I'll lean to 1408. We've had evil Genius Loci (i.e. The Overlook) before, and I can't see any evidence 1408 doesn't lack moral agency.
Abstain on Fuller.
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, in that case, I think I'm fine with him staying. Unique method and high enough body count. It's definitely not Criminal Minds, where he wouldn't count.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Fuller
1408
Okay everybody, it is my honor to present a first proposal from DC comics’s newest continuity. Mir will handle writeup.
What is the work?
Superman (2023) is newest Superman ongoing comic and part of Dawn of DC initiative. As Superman is back in Metropolis and Lex Luthor is behind the bars, Clark’s life gets complicated once again as he learns Lex created and left him in charge of Supercorp, organisation created from Lexcorp meant to help him protect the city. And he will need all the help he can get as the threaths from city’s, and Luthor’s, past appears.
Who is Dr Pharm? What has he done?
Pharm was a child genius whose mother was villain during Wild West using inventions he and his assistant brother Graft made, only for her plans to be foiled by Marilyn Moonlight, spirit of Metropolis. At some point Pharm started speaking only by whispering in his brother’s ear after incident that resulted in their mother’s ears bleeding for days. Over hundred years later when Lex first came to city, now Dr Pharm and Mr Graft are somehow still alive and kicking, with Pharm focusing more on Playing with Syringes and creating creatures called Pharmhands to be their henchmen.
They kidnaped and experimented on hundreds of homeless people of Metropolis. Lex became their arc enemy until they disspeared. Returning to the city, two brothers lead a group of the scientists who have Bone to pick with Lex, using Kryptonite for their plots. First they run agonising experiments on Parasite that made his Horror Hunger even worse and mede him multiply more energy he drains. Unleashed horde drains Metropolis of energy and endagers its people, evolving to infect people and spread hunger. All while Pharm spends his time cutting up captured Bizarro and puts his head in jar. Only for Superman and Lex to work together, stop the infection and cure Parasite.
After that two brothers went to Sliver Banshee, who wants to change her life and is dating Jimmy Olsen, and force her to work for them by threatening to kill everione she loves. They infused her with connection to Phantom Zone that makes her sonic scream even stronger and get out of control, endagering people. After that they tortured Toyman so they could unleash his robots on streets. True purpose of the plot was so Superman’s super hearing would be damaged and while they arrange for Lex to almost be killed in prison so he coudn’t warn Superman when they manipulate him into releasing man with strong telekinesis and serious grudge agains the Luthor, who proceds to wreck city and join the evil duo.
After Pharm’s plot results Superman and ressurected Marilyn being sent to the past, Pharm and his brother start final phase of their plan and attack Supercorp, joined by Luthor’s mother, using red Kryptonite to make Superman go Berserk and unleash him on Luthor. There it is revelated that while Lex battled them, he learned they worked with Kryptonite and started working with them, creating strain that can kill humans. Brothers unleash gas on the Metropolis to ruin Lex reputation forever, only to be defeated and imprisoned while city is saved.
Mitigating factors?
He only speaks briefly when Supes and Marilyn are stuck in the past, but he is given more than enough character as demented Mad Scientist and leader of the duo. While what happened that time he made his mother’s ears bleed isn’t elaborated on, unlike Graft who gets angry when Marilyn insults her, he never shows love for her and or is implied to care for his brother as anything more than assistant and partner in crime.
Heinous standard?
Honestly even withous it being fresh new reboot, Pharm more than makes it. He experiments on hundreds people, makes Parasite’s Horror Hunger even worse and makes is infect people of Metropolis, unleshes Toyman’s robots as a distraction, tries to gas whole city. All while not truly having much except his brother, few minions and his own genius.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 19th 2024 at 2:33:24 AM
Goku Black
Dr Pharm
So guess this is the first of a new era in DC to go on the page. Dawn of dc
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Just a starting content creator
Jogo
Pharm and Fuller
Abstain on Room 1408
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Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
