The word "Bitch" (and other slurs) in trope names/descriptions

I'm a woman in my 60s. I've not been called "bitch" that I recall, though a young neighbor boy once called me "ya old whore!" (and wasn't joking...)

I think the overuse of "bitch" on This Index Is a Bitch is sophomoric humor at best, and not as clever as the originators probably thought.

If younger folk are cool with the term, and they make the consensus, then TV Tropes policy must rule. "Queer" I was told by a person who used the term for self-description, has been reclaimed. Maybe "bitch" will eventually get there, too. Right now I think it is still a slur.

"Queer" has been reclaimed but "bitch" hasn't if you take a look at those academic articles I posted

But like a lot of people, women included, don't see a problem with "bitch" and consider it to be no more bad than the other curses already brought up. As in, no need to reclaim something if you don't already agree it's a slur, y'know?

Obviously it's contentious, but designating what people should feel offended by is as bad as saying what people shouldn't be offended by. Everyone will disagree on these things, and that's OK, but we just can't sanitize the wiki to fit one specific POV. That's what it boils down to for me, at least.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 8th 2022 at 5:22:56 AM

To rename it, This Index Is a Bitch will need to go through TRS, right?

The only one I can sorta see any purpose towards changing is This Index Is a Bitch, it doesn't really NEED the name to make sense.

Trying to claim exactly how offensive the word "bitch" is, is, imo, a fool's errand. It's ultimately a matter of opinion and society at large doesn't seem to consider it a slur or particularly offensive, even most of TV Tropes doesn't seem too bugged by it (and TV Tropes is not the sort of site that will typically let slurs and such slide).

To get back onto the topic of names though...

Alpha Bitch and its subtropes (Beta Bitch and the various tropes that reference it) really shouldn't be renamed unless misuse is an an issue. Big Jerk on Campus is related, but that covers a very different stereotype/depiction, and is very masculine (and is arguably redundant with Jerk Jock, but again, that's work for another day).

This leaves Rich Bitch, which would be hard to rename (the current one covers all its bases, short, snappy, and conveys the fact that it's about a shitty rich woman), Plastic Bitch (which is a subtrope of Rich Bitch), Kick The Son Of A Bitch (which could be renamed if it came down to it tbh, but I see no reason to take that action), and Bitch in Sheep's Clothing (which is also probably best under the current name).

The redirects are eh, bastard is technically gender neutral, but it's usually used for men rather than women, as an insult at least.

The other thing I brought up when I posted in the TRS meta thread was the issue of the workload. Purging the word bitch would require changing thousands if not tens of thousands of wicks, and even more pages would need to be swept to remove every mention of the word. It would probably one of the biggest TRS projects in the site's history, for something that an overwhelming majority of users are either opposed to or neutral towards.

Villainess Index. For the record, it's kinda because I like the way it sounds more.

Yeah, and I actually think "bitch" is fine (EDIT: especially) if it's just used in the sense of an "unpleasant woman" instead of "a woman period". For the record, I'm a girl.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Jun 23rd 2023 at 7:54:59 AM

I think the fact actual misogynists have moved on to using other terms to belittle women is a sign that the word "bitch" has decayed in terms of power. There's a better case for "bitch" being reclaimed than even "queer" has (especially since you can also point to academic articles that also claim "queer" isn't, uh, reclaimed.)

I think most of the highlights have already been said. TV Tropes is about the analysis of media content and by its nature will not always use pleasant terms or have inscrutable language, the intention is not to offend but establish intelligent, mature dialogue over these topics. We do try to ride a line between using clear, official and real world terms as much as possible while also avoiding excessive and inappropriate language, due to both the general perception of the wiki and to maintain good relationships with advertisers. There have been times in the past when the wiki has had issues with lewd content but we try to weed it out depending on what feels correct.

IMO its definitely an insult, but in my experience on this wiki and it being used against me in real life. Bitch is usually used to insult a womans behavior as very arrogant and aggresive rather than targeting her womanhood in particular. I'm personally comfortable with it being used in that way especially if the works portray those character traits as negative. I realize it's not always used like that, but I don't think we should be deleting all appearances because of occasional or exterior misuse.

That being said This Index Is a Bitch is definitely a case of misuse as a number of those tropes don't even describe archetypes with inherently bitchy traits, and it seems more like just an excuse to insult women.

Fag Hag also seems problematic as it uses a slur to describe gay men in general instead of any particular personality traits, or behavior I would definitely support a renaming attempt if brought to the TRS.

On a final note where I'm from bastard and bitch are used interchangeably based on gender. I've only ever heard men called bastards when they have the same arrogant aggressive personalities associated with bitch, and I've never in my life heard a woman called a bastard.

Of note is that the trope names with outdated and/or offensive language thread has identified the term Fag Hag as having been invented by its community, with less clear names available. Lack of an alternative is actually why several of our offensive trope names, including Hot Gypsy Woman, haven't been changed.

When there is an alternative (see: Sim Sim Salabim, Super OCD), or when the trope itself has other problems (see: Date Crêpe, The Rain Man), that's when we actually can do something. That's why I'm planning to wick check/take Schizo Tech in myself at some point—not only is the name offensive, it's also used in a misleading way.

FWIW, I am in favor of renaming This Index Is a Bitch—I may TRS it myself at some point too, assuming no one else does it first.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Sep 12th 2022 at 5:17:22 AM

I'd like to add that Alpha Bitch isn't even an exclusively female trope. To name one example, Draco Malfoy is a male Alpha Bitch.

I've occasionally heard men be referred to as "bitches" but it's almost exclusively in comedic settings. I've only heard women referred to as "bastards" in literal cases.

Edited by Spottedleaf on Sep 20th 2022 at 1:15:26 PM

it definitely surprises me to hear the idea that "bitch" hasn't been reclaimed as thoroughly as "queer" because in my experience it's been the other way around. i'm still kind of uncomfortable with the wiki using queer in trope names while i've never seen an issue in using bitch — though granted i'm transfem so i've been called one far more than the other. i guess i can see the case for avoiding it, at least in cases where its usage is gratuitous rather than integral to the trope (Alpha Bitch feels like one that's hard to rename, This Index Is a Bitch seems simpler)

I've definitely heard a lot of women calling themselves "bitch" in a positive light. Over ten years ago I can even recall Lady Gaga including the line "I'm a free bitch, baby" in one of her songs. "Boss Bitch" is also a phrase women commonly use to describe themselves.

[Alanis Morrisette starts singing unbidden in the back of my head]

There's also the fact that a lot of people who use the insult are other women, and sure you can make the argument that it's internalized misogyny I guess but it feels more accurate to say that a lot of women are comfortable enough with the term to use it themselves.

This Index Is a Bitch does need fixing because it's not really a coherent index. You have characters like Alpha Bitch and Obnoxious Entitled Housewife (who are usually nuisances) alongside characters like Femme Fatale and Evil Matriarch (who are villains).