Jerks Are Worse Than Cleanup Threads

YMMV.One Piece

Does he still count if Vinsmoke Judge is literally the villain for the first half of the arc? He does a I Owe You My Life with the heroes for rescuing him from Eviler than Thou and is never seen again.

(also why is this thread's name ends with a plural? e: Oh, I should have read better.)

Edited by Amonimus on Dec 6th 2022 at 11:47:28 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

It's a joke. "Villains" in "Jerks Are Worse Than Villains"'s name is being substituted with "cleanup threads".

Not familiar with the work, but I see Abusive Parents is potholed on Vinsmoke Judge's name. If he's hated more for that than for his villainy, he could count.

I'm not very familiar with the community. However, I feel Vinsmoke counts assuming they hate him for being a jerk and not just for being a villain.

alright.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

If villains can count as JAWTV because they more hated for their rudeness than their evilness, then Joffrey shouldn't count at all. Because he's hated for his evil actions just as much (if not more) than his general whiny rudeness.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Apr 16th 2023 at 10:07:12 AM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

Has it been discussed if a character crossing the Moral Event Horizon should disqualify them? I saw Delores Umbrage from Harry Potter discussed near the start and wanted to add that while she may have qualified in Order of the Phoenix, her actions in Deathly Hallows definitely disqualify her though I saw it was awhile ago.

Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?

YMMV.Family Guy S 10 E 3 Screams Of Silence The Story Of Brenda Q

• Jerks Are Worse Than Villains: Even though Jeff is a cruel Hate Sink who repeatedly assaults his girlfriend, people actually despise the main characters more than Jeff himself for the rather callous way they respond to Brenda's situation. Lois (who is in a relationship with someone who abuses her and her kids) criticizes her for dating Jeff; Quagmire tells her that she doesn't deserve to be called a woman for refusing to leave him; and Joe, a police officer, outright calls her garbage at the end of the episode. People have actually pointed out that they are just as abusive as Jeff in this scenario.

What do you guys think of this entry? What actually makes them more hateable exactly? The fact they're as bad as Jeff according to the audience? That dosen't sound very convincing imo. I think the problem is more that they're Designated Heroes.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jun 19th 2023 at 4:37:04 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

I checked the page's edit history to see if the person who added that entry left any link in the edit reason to corroborate their claim. Turns out it was added by a troper who has been reported previously for adding overly complainy examples to adult cartoon pages and exaggerating certain characters' misdeeds. With that in my mind, I'm inclined to agree that the example in question isn't very convincing. Jeff is one of the most hated Family Guy characters of all time, and saying that Lois/Quagmire/Joe's actions are comparable to his psychopathic outbursts is just absurd.

Have they been sent notifiers?

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Found this in YMMV.Helluva Boss

• Jerks Are Worse Than Villains:
  • Despite IMP being an organization that murders living people on behalf on their clients for whatever reason, justified or otherwise, they are extremely popular with the fandom due to just how hammy they are. By contrast, Stella is an abusive socialite who's only married to Stolas for status and just so she can watch him squirm and many fans hate her for it. It's not uncommon for fans to list Stella as their least favorite character on the show.
  • Nevertheless, the hate Stella receives is tame compared to Crimson. While Stella does at least have a few fans, nobody in the fandom finds Crimson likable and all unanimously hate him for being an abusive and homophobic Jerkass to Moxxie with the nasty implications that he might've forced Moxxie to kill his own mother.

Stella and Crimson are both villains. Especially Crimson.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

Conversely, IMP are also not villains in my book, even if they're hitmen.

Edited by Amonimus on Jul 25th 2023 at 6:03:21 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Villains are allowed to be troped here by crowner rules. They just must be hated for being jerks, moreso than for being evil.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

The difference here is that Crimson is hated for being evil. He drowned his wife.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

That's a different sort of evil. The evil that doesn't count for this trope is, like, unrealistic fictional evil with people trying to take over the world or get the MacGuffin or live forever or something. Committing murder may just be realistic enough to be seen less as a cartoon villain move and more as a jerkass move.

Basically, it's the difference between "cartoon evil that you can't relate to" and "realistic jerkasses that are just unpleasant".

I don't watch the show so IDRK, but...

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I guess you could make the argument that Crimson's heinous isn't him being a ruthless mob boss, it's his abuse of his wife and son. But even still, I’d argue that the entry would fall better under Realism-Induced Horror.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Jul 25th 2023 at 8:26:39 PM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

JerksAreWorseThanVillains.Western Animation

• Kevin was intentionally made as a Hate Sink; however, unlike the Diamonds, who have many loving followers, Kevin gets no sympathy from fans, as his self-centered attitude and harassment of Stevonnie struck a chord. The best he gets is Love to Hate due to his love of getting a rise out of others making him fun to watch. However, a recent Character Perception Evolution of him has shown why it's a risky idea to use this trope as an Intended Audience Reaction. As obnoxious as he is, fans have since shown more ire towards his portrayal as the narrative of the show was more sympathetic to the Diamonds, who are genocidal warlords, to the point that it seemed to treat his attitude as worse than what they did. What to do if they were an example but might no longer count? Should such not be under JAWTV as arguing against, instead just being under CPE? Or can JAWTV allow past but no longer examples (I've seen Broken Base entries deleted once the issue stopped being decisive)? Also seems stealth complaining about the Diamonds redemption so might be safest to just cut.
• Pink Diamond of the Diamond Authority sees more hatred and ire in the fandom than other members of her family. While the other Diamonds have all committed (off-screen) acts of planetary genocide and the enforcement of a rigid caste system, Pink's actions are comparatively limited. Unfortunately, said limited acts have all personally affected the main cast. This is despite the fact that as the alter ego of Rose Quartz, who freed the Earth from their rule, she's actually the Big Good. The stuff she's contentious for is less her jerkish moments that her Innocently Insensitive and naive ones. If an otherwise non-jerk is seen as worse than villains due to stupidity, is that something that can fall under JAWTV (if so "Insufferablility Is Worse Than Villainy" might be a better name), or is "Idiots Are Worse Than Villains" better as a separate item?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Sep 5th 2023 at 8:31:05 AM

I think it's safe to deal with the complaining about the Diamonds though I think historical (if that’s the right way to describe it) examples are noteworthy.

However, I also agree with cutting Pink Diamond for the reasons you listed. I think what you mentioned might be tropeworthy.

Er... I wouldn't say people perceived Pink as being naive and stupid, the people who hate her do see her as an abusive authority who does things like callously abandon a friend and force her servant into a vow of silence. Whether or not this is actually true of Pink is a massive debate, but the point is, nobody out there who hates Pink hates her for "being stupid".

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I would also agree to cut pink diamond right now considering what it is saying of course. The rest of the examples given I believe will be fine for now. Unless there is need for changing that will have to do.

The "force her servant into a vow of silence" was portrayed as Pink being Innocently Insensitive and unaware of the harm/consequences rather than the willful cruelty of jerkassery. And abandoning Spinal despite it being before Pink's redeeming development was due to her apparent stupidity of not doing about them even after her redemption, which Pink's other actions suggest was ignorance rather than jerkassery.

JAWTV isn't a fit for Pink because those moments were portrayed as idiocy/nativity as opposed to jerkassery (if/the extent of it being jerkassery is Alternate Character Interpretation). But the fact that so many fans see her idiocy as jerkassery is such a clear phenomenon, and seen in many other characters and works, is why this deserves a YMMV to cover.

So in light of this, would the best name for this YMMV be "Stupidity Is Worse Than Malice" "Stupidity Seen As Malice"? And is Hanlon's Razor in-universe examples of this?

Found on YMMV.Spider Man Across The Spider Verse. How do we feel about this one? Obviously we aren't supposed to be rooting for Miguel or anything like that but the debate over Miguel and Miles and canon events and such became heavy outside of TV Tropes. Wanna make sure this fits the trope. Like it's true for the most part but you know, just wanna make sure it fits because he's supposed to be more an Anti-Villain above all else:

• Jerks Are Worse Than Villains: The Spot may be a multiversal threat, but his goofy disposition coupled with his godlike superpower allow him to be a very entertaining (albeit terrifying) villain. Compare that to Miguel, who is so convinced of his righteousness that he actually came to the conclusion that Spider-Man should let people die. Not to mention the incredibly cruel things he says to Miles during their chase scene.

Edited by Jobyrdthegamerbyrd on Oct 11th 2023 at 10:16:12 AM

I'm not sure that one counts because there's a faction of people who think Miguel's right or at least that Miles is Unintentionally Unsympathetic in their conflict.

Edited by PhiSat on Oct 11th 2023 at 12:21:12 PM

Oissu!

Yeah Miguel also gets heavy Draco in Leather Pants too.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Yeah I say cut.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Found this entry YMMV.Slow Damage that I'm unsure of:

• Jerks Are Worse Than Villains: Nobody is arguing that the likes of Toono, Sakaki and Maya have committed many reprehensible crimes, but there's still a sizable fraction of the fandom who Love to Hate them and/or appreciate their roles as well-written villains. Rei's father, on the other hand, is universally disliked by the same fandom for being completely slimy, selfish and cowardly, with not one positive trait on his bone whatsoever.

She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A