Why Emmerich's work is relevant

I am not giving any credit at all...I am actually accusing him of simply wanting to appeal to the American audience and ending up doing so in the most hilarious way possible.

I guess. Feels like a stretch to me and even then, that's all I feel either movie has in common with the other.

I honestly don’t get what the difference in end result is between jingoistic for its own sake and jignoism because you think that’s what the audience wants.

Heck I doubt most American directors are that jingoistic personal they’re just trying to get buts in seats.

The difference is that in this case the end result is so ever the top that it became comical and resulted in every, including the Americans themselves, laughing over the notion that the world would just sit around waiting for them doing something. And while I don't think that this was the intend, well, execution goes over intend in in execution it kind of hold the mirror before the US audience.

I think you're giving him way too much credit.

If anything I give the movie credit, not him. Because I do think that it wasn't intentional but the result of ignorance. But take a good look, this is pretty much what a German believes is the way US Americans see themselves.

I've never really enjoyed Independence Day. Maybe coz I'm not American so the chest thumping doesn't resonate with me. But I've always found it boring. The characters are not characters, they are archetype "The Nerd" "The Conspiracy Buff" "President Action The Stripper with a heart of gold" "The Ace Pilot". The movie has no plot and if just stuff exploding doesn't get you going, I don't think the movie has much to offer. What little action there is is boring. Will Smith comes of the best because of his charisma. I find the same issue in most of his catastrophe movies. Too many characters, many of them rather flat, the plot is boring, boring action.

The only movies of Emmerich I like are White House Down (Coz the smaller cast, the interactions between the two leads makes the movie more interesting, and there's some legit fun action scenes) and parts of Stargate? Like the first and last act. The rest is boring. At least his terrible history movies are more memorable because of how... terrible they are. Not enough to be so bad its good.

Independence Day to me is mostly a fun homage to 50's B-movies but with a 90's blockbuster budget and tons of Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum to make it the good kind of cheesy. Like, I know it's jingoistic. I know it's really really stupid. I know the characters are thinner than cardboard and a lot of the humor is kinda cheap and dated. But god damn it, it's fucking fun. It's meant to be fun spectacle and it gives what it promises. I can perfectly understand why one would dislike it but for me, it's pretty damn fun.

In regards to Godzilla, yes, the baby Godzillas were raptor ripoffs. I'd also argue that Godzilla's design here was made to emulate the T-Rex a bit, but I have so many other problems with the movie that frankly it ripping off Jurassic Park is a minor thing. I don't care if you say "Oh well if you pretend it's not a Godzilla movie then it's fine", it's called Godzilla, it uses the Godzilla license, it was meant to be Godzilla, it gets packaged with other Godzilla movies, so I'm judging it as a Godzilla movie and an adaptation of the Godzilla character. That they retroactively made the character used in the film into his own character named Zilla does not change that.

As an adaptation of Godzilla, the only other films I've seen to match the outright insulting feeling I feel in regards to it are the Percy Jackson films. As a monster movie, I have issues. None of the human characters are particularly engaging to me. Yes, a lot of the Godzilla films had barely any human characters you'd give a rat's ass about, but some of them genuinely did. This? Hell no. Then there's the supremely awful CGI, which actually makes me frustrated not in regards to it being in a Godzilla movie, but because Emmerich didn't use it in Independence Day. Of course I wouldn't want a guy in a suit for this, but I also wouldn't want a half-assed CGI monster that they're hiding by putting in shadows for most of the movie.

I guess nobody in their right mind would claim that Independence Day is a cinematic masterpiece. But at the same time, it is impossible to deny that the movie was culturally relevant.

It's not a cinematic masterpiece and it's really not culturally relevant.whatever the hell that's supposed to mean,it's just a fun dumb alien disaster movie

And I say this as someone who's watched this film way too many times and practically has the script memorised

edited 16th Dec '17 11:25:42 AM by Ultimatum

It is not just A disaster movie, it is THE disaster movie which defined pretty much the whole genre for over a decade. And while those movies have become rarer, if there is anything St. Andreas has proven than that there is still an audience for it.

Culturally relevant means in this case that a movie had an impact on the movie industry and the expectation of the audience. Let's be honest, can any big invasion movie get away without destroying at least one major landmark?

edited 16th Dec '17 12:21:15 PM by Swanpride

In china I guess. Coz St-Andreas underperformed domestically.

Even then, the concept can hardly be said to have either been originated by Independance Day. Earthquake has major landmarks being destroyed (The Mulholland Dam).

HG Wells War of the Wolds did it first. None of that was invented or popularized by Independance Day.

edited 16th Dec '17 4:20:25 PM by Ghilz

Earth vs. the Flying Saucers had aliens destroying the Washington Monument. Hell I think Emmerich said the scene of the White House being destroyed was an homage to it.

Few movies are wholly original, much of the tropes used today existed in some form all the way back in the thirties. In terms of success and influence Independence Day is in a similar league to the likes of Jaws and the original Star Wars. In particular, Scenery Gorn in blockbuster movies took a massive upswing, as Independence Day was so spectacular comparable movies had to live up to that standard. It got to the point that movies like War of the Worlds and Cloverfield had to take a ground-level approach to feel fresh.

Exactly. Plus, it has the holiday bonus. I mean, how many movies are specifically geared towards independence day?

Literally every movie about the American Revolution, if I'm gonna be honest.

well it's unique in that it's only Alien invasion film that celebrates American Independence

But that's really it,

Are there so many movies about the American Revolution? I only ever remember watching one...and that was The Patriot.....so.....

And even that film didn't make July 4th itself into an important day. There is a difference between a holiday appropriate movie and a holiday centric movie. The first two Die Hard films are Christmas movies in that regard.

Well, you could argue that the movie addresses the spirit of the holiday. And the important part of the celebration, the firework, is featured, too.

x2 Die Hard 1 and 2 aren’t Christmas movies? Fuck, does that mean that Trading Places isn’t an appropriate Thanksgiving movie . . . and Christmas movie . . . and New Years Eve movie.

Anyway, while I agree with you on the difference between a holiday appropriate movie and holiday centric; I have to disagree with you on Independence Day not being the former.

Regarding the American Revolution, the fouth of July has often been regarded as the day the American colonist fight for their freedom from the British Regime. The film draws parallel to this via Pullman’s speech (and the sheer coincidence that the final strike against the aliens happened on said holiday) where it is the planet Earth fighting for survival against the planet jacking invaders who wants to destroy everything. The movie is trying to resonate the theme of fighting for you way of life against a powerful foe who says otherwise, which is why I can see why AMC would always play this film during the date (aside from the obvious title).

Though it begs the question why didn’t the final moment of the film didn’t coincidentally happen on the other Independence Days like the French Revolution or Cinco De Mayo. Besides, of course, the latter not having as much appeal as July 4th here in the states and the former already having a miniseries that is based around the premise of alien invadion(cough V cough).

Die Hard 1 and 2 are totally X Mas movie. It has a man crawling into small spaces used to distribute heating to deliver presents (in the form of bullets). And he checks if they have been naughty or nice. He even has a list!

Cinco de Mayo is not Mexican Independence Day. We celebrate that on September 16th.

I was actually talking about The Patriot, it's an American Independence Day appropriate movie while not making the actual day important. The movie Independence Day uses the Patriotic Fervor nature of the holiday weekend to better inform the emotions of fighting off an alien invasion. The original argument was that there are few movies "geared towards" the Independence Day celebration, even if you assume all Revolutionary War movies fit that description it's not like there are a lot of them, certainly not compared to other wars like the American Civil War or World War II, and definitely not compared to movies geared towards holidays like Christmas, Thanksgiving, Halloween or New Years.

x2 And thus adding the fuel to my comment on how Mexico's Independence Day don't have much appeal in the States as we all rather think about the underdog battle against the French army than the actual start of the war.

Actually Cinco De May would be a more appropriate date than Fourth of July considering the fact the final last ditch battle in the movie was an unlikely victory.

edited 19th Dec '17 11:03:29 PM by BigK1337