Hi, folks! We're currently in the middle of an extended wiki development project that will add some nifty tools to the moderation kit (and some bells and whistles for tropers as well). While a full list of what's coming is outside the scope of this topic, there is one very specific thing that needs community involvement and feedback: the namespace configuration system.
In a Nutshell
We're changing namespaces from informal components that anyone can add (you can make an article in the "Glurkbrgl" namespace if you want, just by editing it) to a formal list of allowed values. This list can be added to and offers additional controls, such as the ability to set which style sheet is used by articles in the namespace, which page type is the default, the icon for the namespace tab bar, and how editing and article creation work.Namespace Configuration System
- Namespaces will be itemized in a database table.
- There will be a php page where anyone can view the list and the settings for each namespace, and mods can edit them.
- The configuration system will have (roughly) the following attributes:
- Name: (Main, YMMV, etc.) This will include the canonical capitalization of the namespace (see below).
- Editing Status: This will be a selection from a list of possible restrictions, from "Open" (anyone can edit/create articles) to "Require TLP" (article creation must go through Trope Launch Pad) to "Closed" (nobody can edit or create articles), and a few more.
- Page Type: The default page type to assign to articles in the namespace (a work, a creator, a trope, a subpage, etc.).
- Style: Main, Darth Wiki, Sugar Wiki, etc.
- Auto-Index: Whether the namespace behaves like normal or is automatically indexed, such as in Laconic Wiki.
- Icon: Choose the icon that appears in the namespace tab bar in the header of wiki articles.
- When anyone requests a wiki article (HTTP GET to pmwiki.php), the namespace part of the URL will be checked and forced to the proper capitalization. This will prevent things like "Ymmv", which break wiki functionality.
- When anyone tries to create or edit an article, the namespace configuration will be checked to determine if that action is allowed. If creation is blocked, a suitable message will be displayed. If editing is blocked, then the article will display as locked.
What We Need
What we need from the community is agreement on which namespaces should be kept and which should be discarded. The wiki has accumulated a lot of cruft due to the free-for-all nature of namespace creation, and we want to start with as clean a slate as possible.For reference:
- The formal namespace list is here: Namespace.
- The complete list of namespaces may be viewed with this tool: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/articlecount.php
- The full list of articles in any particular namespace may be seen here, except that it won't work for Main: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/namespace_index.php?ns=YMMV.
How This Will Work
If we decide not to keep a namespace, any articles in it should either be cut or moved to a more suitable namespace. Any such namespaces that have remaining articles when the new system goes live will be set to "Closed", so that nobody can make new ones and the existing ones will be automatically locked.For all remaining namespaces, we need to populate the initial settings: page type, editing status, and style. Note that many of these are already known and configured, so we'll carry those over — there's no need to renegotiate the status of Main or YMMV, for example. I'm mainly talking about the odder ones like, say, Castle.
After the system goes live, if anyone tries to add an article that isn't in an approved namespace, the attempt will be blocked. Requesting new namespaces would be done in the Locked Pages topic or some other topic we create specifically for that purpose.
Rules and Procedures
- The working list of namespaces to load into the configuration system will be stored in Namespace Cleanup Project.
- Any user may bring up a namespace that they think should be removed or given special handling.
- If there is significant immediate consensus, we'll approve it and any required actions (cleanup, transplants) can begin.
- If consensus is not clear, then we will use a crowner to collect votes.
We will also answer general questions about the system in this topic, but we will keep it focused specifically on the namespace project. Off-topic thumps will be used if needed.
- Q: Are we changing any media namespaces (Film, Western Animation, Manhua, etc.)?
A: No, we are not. That's not in the scope of the project; the intent is to configure all media namespaces as they currently exist. - Q: What are we doing with examples subpages (like Castle.Tropes Ato D)?
A: We want to clean those up. Check out this post to see some ideas, and this Google Drive doc for a list of all such articles.
Note: We can't just merge them back together, as most were hard split for size to begin with. - Q: So what should we focus on?
A: That's a great question! We're looking mainly at namespaces that have fewer than 40 articles in them, and that are not medium namespaces. In other words, let's start from the bottom of the list. In particular, let's get rid of one-off namespaces that aren't being used for actual trope content. - Q: Is there a list of all namespaces that are being used for trope example subpages?
A: Thanks for asking. Yes, it's here. Note that some media namespaces were caught in the query.
Edited by nombretomado on Jan 5th 2020 at 11:39:34 AM
A number of pages have trope lists that are long enough that they're separated into groups. A good example is Dungeons & Dragons which has separate Classes, Creatures, Monster, and Settings pages. I suppose all of those could be renamed into something like "Examples/Dungeons & Dragons (Creatures)", etc.
A trickier question is what to do about articles that aren't trope pages. Some examples are Theme.Glee, and Bloopers.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic. Are any pages simply going to be cut, or should every page find a proper spot to be moved to?
edited 26th Jun '17 11:53:03 AM by Unknownlight
Lost in Space
Theme is a bogus namespace; that'll definitely be cut. Maybe the content could go to Analysis? Bloopers might go under Trivia, but really, that's not what TV Tropes is here to document. Those D&D subpages should probably be moved to Examples, yes.
edited 26th Jun '17 12:15:28 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sorcerer in training
Discworld is good practice for the whales, since there's nothing new coming out. (Sniff)
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
for split pages- which currently use namespaces- is there a technical reason why they can't be (say) Castle/Tropes A-Z instead of a namespace of the Tropes A-Z page?
Lost in Space
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I addressed the thinking on that topic here.
edited 27th Jun '17 2:00:18 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Veteran Editor IV
A stupid question, but should the remaining pages in High Octane Nightmare Fuel be cut? The namespace does have an icon, but I don't think it's necessary, since pages in it redirect to the Nightmare Fuel namespace anyway. Thank you.
edited 28th Jun '17 10:15:12 AM by Piterpicher
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Lost in Space
Yes, that seems kind of obvious. The only reason to keep them would be for title inbounds, which is pointless if the title exists in a different namespace.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
What would this do to pages that are already in incorrectly-capitalized namespaces?
(Avatar by Coffee)
They'll have to be moved, I presume.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Lost in Space
We've asked the admins to automatically correct the capitalization via database query. If that's not possible, then they'd have to be cut and remade, just as they do now.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Veteran Editor IV
I've made something that will solve the problem with incorrectly capitalised namespaces: Pages In Accidentally Miscapitalised Namespaces. Hope it helps!
Also a question: is the proper capitalisation of the fanfic namespace FanFic, or Fanfic? The Article Count shows the former, but Namespace shows the latter.
edited 16th Jul '17 3:35:56 AM by Piterpicher
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
"Fanfiction" vs "fan fiction" is the subject of heated debate among fan communities.
You could read that long article and form your own opinion, but I think that the namespace should probably be Fanfic/. The Google Trends evidence is particularly conclusive.
edited 16th Jul '17 2:24:03 PM by Unknownlight
Lost in Space
I've processed all the cut requests for the mis-capitalized namespaces so far. The articles can be restored.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I see there have been discussion already about the Disney/ namespace.
I'm not necessarily for removing it entirely, since it has its use, but it should be better defined, preferably to be used strictly for the Disney Animated Canon.
If you look at the Classic Disney Shorts, it is applied rather incoherently, most being under WesternAnimation/ with a few under Disney/.
Has not been addressed: What is the process for creation of new redirects in restricted namespaces?
Lost in Space
They'd go through the Locked Pages request thread as always.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Incidentally, I've seen a preview of the prototype namespace configuration system on the dev server. It looks pretty good, but we're not quite ready to beta test it yet.
I really want to focus this topic on cleaning out the 1- and 2-page namespaces. It's a much more manageable task than moving everything in Disney/ or whatever.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
(Avatar by Coffee)
Cleaning, as in moving the pages elsewhere?
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Lost in Space
Or cutting, whatever the ideal decision ends up being.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
(Avatar by Coffee)
I'll take a poke at a few from the bottom of the list, but before I do that: what makes a page cut-worthy? Less than three examples?
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Lost in Space
Content that doesn't belong on the wiki. Content that can be put on another article. Ask here if you have questions.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
(Avatar by Coffee)
Gotcha, wilco.
EDIT: OK, already running into something that looks like a Thing: incomplete Hard Splits. Basically, those are pages that are 90% folders, with one folder being split off as a different page (which shows up as a namespace): e.g. HaremGenre.Anime And Manga; the bottom 10ish entries of the namespace list are a case of this (aside from one namespace that shows empty for some reason). What do I do?
edited 25th Jul '17 7:15:47 AM by desdendelle
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Splitting off one folder, or even a particularly prolific work (or, in the case of Biting-the-Hand Humor, a particular category of works within a medium), is fairly common practice with large pages that are particularly common in a particular medium (like Harem Genre). Does this practice need to be reassessed if it will now have to involve asking the devs or mods to create a whole new namespace for one page?
Lost in Space
I really want to see all of those namespaces that get created for trope and work splits redone, but the amount of work required for the larger namespaces is prohibitive. We could start with the smaller ones, though. The most popular proposal seems to be to use Examples/ as the namespace for work splits (e.g., Examples.Bioshock Infinite A To D) , but I'm not sure if we settled on one for trope splits.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I don't mind if people take on the big projects, but what I really want removed is the stuff at the small end of the scale: the 1's and 2's on the namespace count.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"