Needs Help: Hidden Heart Of Gold

I'll do the same. I previously downvoted Hidden Heart of Gold, but now I feel that it sounds better.

Okay, thread can stick around a while longer while we get some more votes.

Flipped vote. Choosing one of them is better than no action.

Jerkass Façade still has over 2000 wicks to be fixed.

For anyone fixing wicks, remember the distinction:

• Hidden Heart of Gold means the Jerkass has a nice side that they keep hidden.
• Jerk with a Heart of Gold means the character openly shows Jerkass and Nice Guy approaches.

I took out about 50 of those. Still 1996 wicks to go.

So I was combing through the A's and came across this wick from Academy of Merlin: Sideplot Characters Arc III

• Jerkass Façade: Inverted, it seems. Though Kayla is kind and friendly when first met, upon meeting Alex her demeanor completely changed and she snapped at him. She was justified, it seems...

That's not a correct example of an inversion of Hidden Heart of Gold right?

No, delete that. Does not look like an example.

• Jerkass Façade: Except he didn't really turn heel, he just acted that way to convince Senguuji. It was revealed in the Dragonlink match that Gouenji only became Holy Emperor to stop Senguuji from destroying soccer.

edited 11th Jun '18 5:40:48 AM by Dghcrh

It doesn't look like an example as it doesn't seem to be a jerkass trying to hide their nice side. And the discussion about those two other tropes should really go elsewhere.

edited 11th Jun '18 7:19:06 PM by MacronNotes

2015 wicks —> 1925 wicks (Jerkass Façade clean-up effort report)

Edited by XFllo on Jan 17th 2019 at 12:05:14 PM

Jerkass Façade has now 1715 wicks.

Only saw this now that the deletion of Jerkass Façade is in progress. Where should characters go who put on a Jerkass Façade but don't have a golden heart underneath. They are just normal if they don't pretend to be jerks. This character fit well under Jerkass Façade but does not have proper replacement in any of the related tropes as far as I can see. Or are we defining "heart of gold" as the absence of jerkassery?

Edited by eroock on Jan 28th 2019 at 8:23:14 PM

Good question there...

I've noticed that too.

I've started to use this as edit reason: TRS (Jerk Ass Facade clean-up) — this trope is Hidden Heart of Gold or Jerk with a Heart of Gold or Jerkass as Invoked Trope

I think invoked jerkass might cover it just fine.

BTW, we're down to 1500 wicks now. Woo hoo!

I just wanted to ask — should I proceed with replacing Jerkass Façade? It's a lot of work. I know the decision was made, but I don't know whether there's possibility for it to be reversed.

1470 wicks.

Jerkass shouldn't be used if a more appropriate trope is applicable, so I don't know if invoking it in place of Jerkass Façade is a good solution.

The thing is that the previous crowner this thread had decided to merge Hidden Heart Of Gold with Jerkass Facade and the next crowner decided that Hidden Heart of Gold stays as the trope.

What is the narrative purpose of putting on a false jerkass front? When I did the original wick checks, I noticed that a lot of characters were added to the Jerkass Façade tropes for odd reasons. If the narrative purpose is not to hide a secret heart of gold, then why are they doing it?

The reason I ask is because the trope you might be looking for is Beneath the Mask. Identifying the narrative point of having faking jerkassery may identify the trope you need to move it to.

Right, Beneath the Mask is a trope to bear in mind, definitely.

But I feel like that is about how people act and how they really feel and what they truly are, good or bad.

• But I have to keep thinking about one very silly fanfic that I recently read. There was a character who is undoubtedly a good humble guy, heroic even, but he's an aristocrat and to achieve a certain goal, he intentionally acts like a haughty jerk for a short while in front of some other blue blood jerks.
• Or in one example context (don't remember the work), it's mentioned that a guy who is nice acts like a giant jerk to a woman. He does it only to hide their Secret Relationship.

That I believe would be examples of Jerkass as an Invoked Trope.

Or do we have something more specific for this situation?

So what do we do next? Do we proceed with the clean-up? Lots of people seem to be dissatisfied with the decision and the process.

However, during my clean-up, I noticed that usually people want to collect as much tropes as possible (like they are Pokemons or something) so I usually only delete a pothole to Jerkass Facade in an entry that is for Jerk with a Heart of Gold. Lots of them are ZCE, which makes it easy to delete or comment-out.

Edited by XFllo on Feb 15th 2019 at 4:12:10 PM

I only just heard about this and I suppose it's too late to change the decision, but I'd like it noted that I don't really agree with it. I really don't think we should be getting rid of Jerkass Façade. If anything, Hidden Heart of Gold should be merged into Jerk with a Heart of Gold. I noticed a long time ago that there didn't seem to be any meaningful distinction between those two. Jerkass Façade is about intentionally putting up an emotional wall to make people leave you alone or maintain a specific reputation, which is very different from deep down being a good person.

Hidden Heart of Gold, on the other hand, seems to be just Jerk with a Heart of Gold except a bit more. As I've watched the cleanup effort as it proceeded on pages on my watchlist I've noted a lot of trope entries that are being deleted or altered in ways that destroy the narrative significance of what is going on or miss the point to the scene. The trope is not about how someone is a good person deep down, it's about how a decent person is pretending to be a bad one.

I don't think this thread made the right decision. I suppose it's probably too late to change it, but when I spoke to someone about it they suggested I bring up my complaint anyway rather than just forgetting about it.

I don't think we have to be hell-bound on executing a decision which was made with less than the best information available. Let's discuss what should happen to neutral characters acting as jerkasses for some reason. Possible options are:

1. ignore them
2. keep them under the supertrope Beneath the Mask
3. give them their own trope
4. merge them under Hidden Heart of Gold

ATM, I am leaning towards option 2.

Edited by eroock on Feb 15th 2019 at 1:04:59 PM

neutral characters acting as jerkasses for some reason

2. keep them under the supertrope Beneath the Mask

I like that. However, I'm really not sure this covers "heroic characters, truly good inside or truly nice every other time, acting like jerkasses for some reason, usually for a brief period to cover up something".

Do we proceed with the clean-up? Whenever I remove a substantial amount of wicks, people start messaging me whether it's approved and that they dislike it.