Nationalism in Anime

I agree, plus we did kinda absolutely obliterate two of their cities in horrific atomic fire less than a century ago. Whether or not it was the right thing to do isn't really the discussion for this thread, but it is understandable that it would significantly impact Japan's culture and their relationship with us even 70 years later.

I do think it's important to point out instance of overt nationalism in anime we watch IF it crosses over mere parody into actual jingo, which is obviously going to be a problem however you cut it. Mahouka was pretty blatant about this (among other things — it has a LOT of other issues), but the Muv-Luv series is drowning in this, due to the nature of the setting.

America is a popular villain to have in any anime or manga, even if it's just as a side note. Infinite Stratos has America as an antagonist, but I forgot to what extent.

America changed in the different versions of Infinite Stratos.

In the LN and manga the American suit was a codeveloped project between America and Israel, the suit was taken over while the pilot was basically trapped in the thing and she was later freed. She flat out kisses him for the rescue causing a fight and becomes plot important in later novels.

In the Anime the suit it is just robot that went nuts and gets destroyed and they never introduce her at all.

Now Gundam Seed and Destiny America was the primary enemy, although its only made clear in Destiny that the countries that we know mostly still exist and only after they had switched sides and abandoned Logos.

edited 10th Sep '15 5:17:54 AM by Memers

For explicitly nationalistic mangas there are notably Neo Goumanism Manifesto and Manga Kenkanryuu. Thankfully this kind of mangas remains rare. I… think?

Neither was adapted in anime, obviously, but they do seem to reflect the opinion of a Vocal Minority.

@Myssa Rei Don't remind me of Muv Luv. |[ I hated the tsundere antics, I hated how the main character was kicked around by his team, I hated the 'see those pure Nippon maidens sacrificing their lives for their country arentyoutouchedyet'. The main guy's immediate superior was a sh*thead with serious issues and should never be allowed to command soldiers. I hoped for a decent military series and got the usual harem silliness and tsundere bull. And don't forget, Japanese mecha are subtle and superior, just like the Nipponese soul.

There's apparently not insignificant right-wing sentiment among otaku. Of course, it's not like that isn't a thing in the West; in particular, this section sounds quite familiar to me:

Also, this:

Christ, the number of shitheads with anime avatars on Twitter…

edited 11th Sep '15 10:01:08 AM by majoraoftime

This sounds familiar...

I've read that before and it still sounds as dumb as when I first happened upon it.

I like a lot of Moe characters and I know others who fel the same. I'm neither Conservative nor Liberal.

Also "Moe" doesn't just mean "little girls."

That entire thing is so biased it hurts.

edited 11th Sep '15 10:20:51 AM by Nikkolas

Yeah, it's worth noting 2chan's American counterpart, 4chan, is also very racist (and sexist).

Out of curiosity, is anyone in here Japanese or currently living in Japan and reading the Yomiuri every morning? Or is everyone some variation of "Westerner" trying to discuss an outside country?

Some of the answers I've seen here seem... oddly informed, or at least wildly out of line with my own experiences living in Japan. (Either I had actually a ridiculously quiet and peaceful life there, or I missed all this nationalism somehow.) I'm not sure if it's ignoring or forgetting or leaving off considering as uncontrollable factors what you can get away with animating under censorship laws or just plain economic considerations, not to mention Executive Meddling.

I always got the impression that there's on average the usual amount of national pride in Japan, and the standards for what constitutes jingoism is much lower than in the USA (somewhat less stringent than modern Germany, I think), with some lingering war guilt playing a factor. The recent "allowing the SDF to join in offensive military actions" thing happened over very vocal protests, for example, and there's always some protest over even the smallest warlike thing. The thing to keep in mind is the age of the kids directing the newer shows, and how they didn't grow up during the lean post-war years.

Long story short, I'm not sure there's much value in looking at a consumable product like Anime - that has to appeal to a market to remain on the air, and thus must be made marketable to that market - and trying to find a culture-wide representation of Nationalism there. Or its reverse, using a culture-wide representation to explain an element in a single show or genre.

Sigh. Having said all that, it's not like our options for examining this aren't limited. One person actually figuring all this out would be a dissertation in some Masters-level field of study, and it's not like I'm in any position to judge anyone here harshly.

edited 11th Sep '15 2:02:31 PM by DeusDenuo

Yup, just a buncha weebs in here, puzzling over cartoons. The experience of someone who's actually lived in the country we're talking about is quite welcome.

Thought these were some good musings on the topic.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm not sure why this would be a problem. What's the issue with saying "This seems like a troubling cultural trend, and I think it's reflected in this aspect of X show"?

edited 11th Sep '15 2:15:36 PM by majoraoftime

There's a reason why the thread specifies in Anime. As I said at the start, most studios will not risk controversy either way, so it helps that many are either narrowly national (often a single school) or in fantasy settings. But there are enough that make a statement, or allow bias of some sort to creep in. That's what we're looking at.

You're right that jingoism is badly seen by the vast majority. But then the current prime minister visits Yasukuni shrine, with its museum glorifying the kaiten torpedoes and presenting the war as a bulwark against Western colonialism and Chinese warlords. So the minority is as vocal at an international level. I think the central problem is not a desire for conflict but romantisizing the war and not talking openly about what happened. On the subject of those 2channers, the link between moe and reactionary sentiment may be that both are disdained by the mainstream and this is their best avenue of expression.

I'll add that quite a few south-east Asians want a more assertive Japan, since it is the largest democracy with a national desire for stability, while China is acting much more like Imperial Japan.

@Nikkolas

What makes you think so? Did you read the linked article or just glanced at the title? Of course it's not a rigorous study, but it still offers food for thought on why is moe-right wing such a popular combination to land that one aggregator a high place on the influential blogs list.

I read several articles on the site when I found it months and months ago. The linked one - saying that liking cute things goes hand-in-hand with right wing politics - was one of them. I haven't read the article since I found it on Google all those months ago but I have no desire to read it again.

Are there Conservatives who like Moe? Sure, why not. Last I checked one's children's cartoon preferences doesn't say anything about their views of politics, society and economics.

edited 14th Sep '15 4:19:01 AM by Nikkolas

It's not so much that Pat Buchanan or whoever is super into cute anime girls. It's just that the "browses chan boards" and "likes anime" circles on the Venn diagram are almost on top of each other, and chan culture leans heavily right-wing (often parodically so) on both sides of the Pacific.

From what I am seeing the situation in Japan is similar to some of the western countries. The media productions and the news are left leaning, with some right-wing publications. A dominion that doesn't reflect in the overall populacy who has a different distribution of political beliefs. From what I have seen, the right wingers that are able to pierce the veil are the ballsiest, the deranged, the extremists and the angriest, polacks and other similar people basically. So it gets easy to paint them all as lunatics, so the rights tend to be quiet.

At least this is how it is in Brazil. For a long time, being called a right winger here was akin to be called racist. Only now, thanks to outgrowing that and a lot of CATACLYSMICAL screw-ups from our left government people are starting to not give a fuck about that.

Just want to mention: if we're going to use the horribly flawed one-dimensional spectrum of left-right politics, we should stick to how it applies in Japan, since we're talking about demographics in Japan and the Japanese point of view. Comparisons with other countries based on the left-right spectrum doesn't work that well.

The connotation given by "left" or "right" varies wildly by country. Let me give you an example. In South Korea, the center-right Saenuri Party tends to be more hardliner towards North Korea, whereas the center-left Democratic Party (now called New Politics Alliance for Democracy) favors a softer stance. In Taiwan it's the opposite: the center-right Kuomintang favors gradual reunification and more interaction with mainland China, whereas the center-left Democratic Progressive Party leans towards a more independent Taiwan and has a more reserved attitude towards the mainland.

—'.`— Not sure about that. In France at least it's rather the opposite. I guess the definition of "left" and "right" can change depending on the places or the point of view.

edit: 'd. Kinda.

edited 14th Sep '15 10:04:44 AM by Lyendith

Reasonable. For example it is possible for one to be favor a left economy with a right culture, for example.

Going back to Japan, as Trivialis pointed, I don't have watched a lot of works with nationalistic pride. Most of the works were about individuals alone or saving the whole world scenarios.

I would like to watch a modern anime/manga that worked people to love their own country and respect their neighbors, but not being afraid of fighting them IF necessary. Also reading all of their own history, the good parts and the bad parts.

Fuck, just recently, I have seen a brazilian movie with brazilian soldiers in WW II doing good stuff. About time that I saw some of my compatriots doing good stuff.

True. It's my understanding that, to use the U.S. as an example, the Democrats are actually fairly center-right by European standards.

I thought Brazil was neutral. Or am I just talking out of my ass?

edited 14th Sep '15 12:48:54 PM by KarkatTheDalek

At first? Yes. But our military joined the war later on.

Look up "Brazillian Expeditionary force" if you have time.

edited 14th Sep '15 1:32:00 PM by SaintDeltora

Huh, pretty cool.

It is, isn't it?

As for the position of the U.S. democrats I am offering my perspective as a single brazilian, who watches international news, who identifies himself as mostly right-winger.

The democrats used to be more to the right but in recent years, specially after Obama's first election, they've gone left.

E ei Saint Deltora, legal ver um compatriota aqui.

edited 14th Sep '15 2:55:52 PM by grahav

Eu ja vi varios outros nesse site. E so que estamos um pouco "Espalhados" nos diferentes subforuns e cantos, e quanto a Wiki e meio dificil procurar detalhes sobre a vida dos usuarios em wikis.

edited 14th Sep '15 2:10:37 PM by SaintDeltora