The real problem I have with Superman

This is coming from someone who really is a fan of Superman and has read his stories (though mainly because I'm currently sick of Batman and the requisite of "grittiness" for superheroes today). But I am aware of some criticisms but there is one I can't really bring myself to really defend.

Problems I don't have with Superman (skip if you like)

I'll be up front in saying that I don't have a problem with Kryptonite and red sunlight being "arbitrary weaknesses", as I've witnessed the Kryptonite subject being dealt with in interesting ways (the K arc in Superman/Batman), and red sunlight makes sense from a biological standpoint.

I also have no problem with Superman being "unbeatable", as I think it's absolute bullshit since all of his villains Silver Age onward are physical matches or superiors to him (and Luthor has a suit of armor for when it comes to that).

The Problem

But the real, real problem I have with Superman is his current portrayal of having limits, yet not really having limits. It's pretty much the notion that Supes can't be everywhere at once and do everything at once which is supposed to be his "relatable" aspect. And that I really could appreciate that standpoint because everyone can't do everything at once even though they would really like to. Generally, Superman just resolves to do the best he can and resign to the fact that a superman isn't a perfect man, and everyone can relate to that.

...but Superman can fly around the world in seconds, has Super-Speed for working with his hands, is gifted with a sharp intellect, and he can apparently go wherever the hell he wants in the universe as long as there is either a source of yellow sunlight, shields himself from red sunlight, or "brings" sunlight with him.

So why can't he be almost everywhere on Earth at once, or even the entire universe? Why does he confine himself to Metropolis and agree to keep out of other cities unless his help really is needed? No good answer to this question has ever been given, since Superman fans, writers, and even haters don't really think about it.

If someone can solve this problem, I would appreciate it, as again, I am a fan of Superman.

edited 24th Feb '15 9:09:10 PM by WaxingName

Well, he can't literally be everywhere in the world at once. He can fly really, really fast, but that's still way too slow to solve every problem- and that's not even getting into the time issue. L Ike as an aexample, Superman can probably hear a bullet fired anywhere in the City, but he can't move fast enough to stop someone from being killed who is across town (or even closer probably). And his ability to hear things is usually limited to Metropolis- Superman can fly pretty quickly anywhere in the world but he's not omniscient.

Another issue is that Superman- well, Clark- wants to have a normal life. He could probably solve a lot more problems if he did nothing but fight crime, but since he doesn't...

This is a hard one to contend with, because for me it falls under the "suspension of disbelief" umbrella. Still, superspeed doesn't translate into omnipresent. Even being able to move several times faster than the speed of light wouldn't even come close to enabling him to reach every point in the universe in a reasonable amount of time.

Which is why I asked "Why can't he be almost everywhere at once?"

Also, Superman can fly around the world in seconds.

edited 24th Feb '15 10:13:46 PM by WaxingName

I mentioned in another thread how such inflation can be somewhat defused by saying that there are threats just as powerful warranting attention, and the guy's only been operating for a few in-universe years - not exactly a stonewall argument, but it's better than nothing, I suppose.

However, there are stories that just love to exploit his lack of hard power limits, concluding with a long-winded "World of Cardboard" Speech. That way, fans can both wax poetic about how noble and restrained he is in always holding back - because y'know, he apparently can only switch between "relatively useless" and "living WMD" mode - yet still write him up as invincible in the obligatory online "versus" threads. Add in the Silver Age gimmick of an ice fortress stocked with cosmic wonders that he nobly keeps to himself - because superhero comic civilians are Too Incompetent to Operate a Blanket, let alone use them for beneficial purposes - and you basically get a guy who's too powerful to do anything, since even the slightest effort would disturb the status quo too much.

I'll note that the superspeed argument also applies to The Flash and pretty much every other character out there who is possessed of superspeed. Hell, if anything it's worse in the case of The Flash, because while Superman regularly fights characters who are as strong and as fast as he is, only a select number of Flash foes have any way of keeping up.

Personally, given how rarely Superman's superspeed actually factors into a story (I mean, sure he's normally very fast, but rarely "speed of light" fast) I tend to just ignore it.

I really don't think that Superman can move at the speed of light- and if comics have said he can, I'd chalk it down to Writers Cannot Do Math.

He's "faster than a speeding bullet", which travels at about 1,700 miles per hour (thanks, Google). I'm not sure how much faster Superman is than such a bullet, but I'm of the opinion that he's not that much faster.

Which means that he can stop someone from being shot if they are in close proximity and he can fly around the world pretty quickly (like I'd imagine he could go from Metropolis to London in let's say 30 minutes or so).

I do think that Superman is effectively invincible, but that's different from being omnipotent.

edited 25th Feb '15 9:01:05 AM by Hodor2

One explanation is that, while he can fly ridiculously fast, if he goes full-speed anywhere but outer space or the upper atmosphere, the air friction he generates would cause massive damage to the surrounding area.

I think it also helps to assume that, unless otherwise stated, each current issue of Superman is taking place at the same time as the current issue of Batman, as the current issue of Wonder Woman, as the current issue of Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, etc.

If you do that, it really cuts down on the number of times you have to ask yourself "why doesn't he fly to Gotham and bust The Joker"? The answer, after all, is then right in front of you—he's trying to halt Metallo's rampage through downtown Metropolis, or head off Zod's latest invasion, or track Brainiac halfway across the universe, or what have you.

In the sixties he could hit speed of light. Don't know what his top speed is now.

I always thought this was the most obvious answer. The heroes all have their own stuff to deal with and can't be everywhere at once.

There's also the more pragmatic problems of Ego Depletion and Compassion Fatigue. Something that, while Superman comics will never admit he's susceptible to, countless books have demonstrated that he is.

To summarize, Superman helps as many people as he can before it just becomes "too much". Every cry for help, every villain fight, every disaster . . . he can hear them ALL. To his credit, he does everything he can when he's of fresh body and mind, but his mind will wear down far faster than his body.

edited 25th Feb '15 11:47:49 AM by KingZeal

don't know that they won't admit it so much as there's really no percentage in their utilizing it. They're concepts with little dramatic potential, and what story potential they do have is likely to lead straight to a very, very depressing corner.

I do understand how it can be irritating though. There's an old Fleischer cartoon, for instance, that has Superman doing the usual Superman feats of strength and then having trouble later busting through a perfectly ordinary door in order to stop a saboteur. There's an episode of the much more recent Justice League that has Superman chasing Deadshot, who is escaping in a van; never once does Superman, for instance, think of using his heat vision to melt the tires or disable the engine. I'll take a less powerful Superman over a stupid one, thank you.

Seconded. I hate it when people, writers especially, forget about Superman's limits. It's always satisfying to see Superman go head to head with someone who exceeds him, Lex included.

The only time I think those would be especially useable would be if you were doing the Superman equivalent of Born Again or some such, in which a villain successfully turns the hero's life entirely upside down. And I quite frankly wouldn't want to read that.

I think it's a question of scale and how much attention he can devote to a problem.

Let's take the gunshot example. One internet source claims that in the whole US, seven people are shot every hour and 3 of those people die. Accounting for Gotham city, and metahuman activity in the DC-verse, let's conservatively say they have triple the real-word rate. So, 21 people are shot every hour, and 9 of them die. Assume he can make out gunshots from similar sounds (like those door cutter things paramedics use to get people out of crumpled cars that are powered by shotgun shells) all across the country. Rounding down, he needs to intercept a bullet every three minutes.

Let's say he can and he does. Then what?

He probably had to use super-speed to get from place to place. That means sonic booms. That means sudden winds and people deafened along the paths he takes to each incident. Would he think that X number of deafened people per day are worth 21 gunshot victims an hour?

Let's say maybe.

That leaves the question. In the 3 minutes he has, does he just save the victim or neutralize the perpetrator too and bring him to the police.

Let's say he does. That's when problems start. He can't stop and detain them at max speed and max strength. Most would be only human, after all. Too fragile. He has to gear down, to speeds where he isn't killing them just from touching them. So he does.

Can he do this in the, let's say, 2 minutes 55 seconds he has left? Debatable, but possible. Batman can one hit punch these guys, so maybe Superman could too. Except he has so much strength, he has to be careful, or he might one-hit kill them instead. Maybe he experiments, so see what it takes.

Show of hands for the number of people willing to volunteer to participate in the 'Superman tests how much force he needs to use to one-hit punch a guy, he'll be real careful, honest'.

And that's when he realizes it's a good idea in theory, but to dangerous to try in practice, mainly because finding the best way to turn such a thing into the rote exercise it needs to be so he can do it for every incident that happens EVER requires too much potentially destructive testing of a human body. Can cadavers substitute? Maybe. Will it translate well to being used on a living human? Maybe...

So, while he's doing all this, who watches out for the stabbing victims? The purse snatchers? The car thieves? Does Superman leave them to someone else, because doing them would leave not enough time to stop gunshots? No, of course not, he's not that kind of person, he'll stop them too.

So, when does that leave him time to sleep and not go insane? Eat? Visit his family? See his friends? Do justice league stuff?

Yeah...

Being overwhelmed by all the things you COULD do but can't because there's not enough time in the world (simply because just because YOU have Superspeed doesn't mean everyone else can move at the same speed as you)... I think that's very relatable.

edited 25th Feb '15 5:14:26 PM by SCMof2814

My solutions would be to simply give Superman stated limits. One million tons seems reasonable striking limit. That's a megaton after all, strong enough to destroy cities. Escape velocity seems nice too, it's more than fast enough to cross continents.

Alternatively, you could make him stronger in outer space by explaining the lack of atmosphere or something, which would explain exactly how he can fly across the solar system but still be too slow to save everyone in a single city. Better yet, don't give him many spacey adventures.

Also, explain exactly how krytonite affects him and stick to it. He survives a nuke, fine. He wades through them on krytonite? He lifts islands made of kryptonite while a shard of it is embedded in his side? Not much of a weakness is it? Similarly, if red suns are suppose to be so bad for him, having him survive flying through one seems a bit much.

As to the question of speed, well, this is mainly headcanon, but it's derived from Grant Morrison-era JLA stuff. I've always assumed Superman's 'natural' (as in, what he can consistently produce if he really goes all out, damn the consequences) top speed was about 0.98c, where c=speed of light (the Flash is canonically faster, at 0.99c to 1.01 c). Obviously, he can't really go that fast all the time, since things like his mass increasing due to relativity, and the fact he'd be moving so fast air molecules might as well explode because they really can't get out of his way fast enough.

The solution to Kryptonite is for him to wear his awesome anti-K suit more often. Seriously, he should wear that thing all the time considering Luthor spreads the word about his weakness all the time.

Another thing, Superman has his strength down to an incredibly precise control. No matter the story, Clark always has to struggle with learning to control his powers before he leaves for Metropolis and becomes Superman.

Take that Batman fans! Batman may have learned his skills, but he was born into more money than God. Clark learned his skills, too, even though he was irradiated with yellow sunlight from infancy.

You know what might be neat to see? A version of Superman who can't solve all the world's problems because he's legitimately too nice.

He could rescue those hostages from their kidnapper, but those kidnappers worked really hard to take those hostages; taking that away from them wouldn't be very nice. And, sure, he could give everyone a source of unlimited clean energy, but there are so many people working on that problem already, he doesn't want to steal the spotlight and make all their work meaningless. The only problems he can really solve are clear cut accidents or cases where a criminal is so egotistical that they willingly challenge Superman to try and stop them.

I got that idea from the manga/anime Medaka Box. The hero Medaka is presented as being completely perfect in every way, but as a result her understanding of the world and the normal people in it is heavily skewed. If someone is obviously guilty of a crime, but claims they didn't do it, Medaka will automatically believe them; since she would never lie, she doesn't understand why someone else would. Similarly, if someone attacks her, she'll refuse to fight back, because she doesn't understand why they'd want to cause her harm, and so concludes they must have only hurt her by accident. Even without human malice entering the equation, she fails miserably when she tries tutoring some students who failed a test, because all of her instruction to them focuses on making sure their answers are legible; the idea that someone could take a test and not know the answer to every question never occurred to her.

Applying that sort of characterization to Superman would probably be too gimmicky for the main continuity, but seeing that approach taken in a non-canon version of the character would be interesting.

edited 26th Feb '15 9:19:21 AM by RavenWilder

Chalk it up to As Fast As They Need To Be and move on.

edited 25th Feb '15 9:48:36 PM by Ekuran

Superman is Traveling at the Speed of Plot? Of course. Like in the 1978 Superman movie where he wasn't fast enough to catch both missiles but then later was fast enough to time travel! Though only being at full power/capability at the end of the story seems to happen to many heroes.

edited 26th Feb '15 10:55:52 AM by bookworm6390

That's not "niceness". It's incompetence.

Name five times.

edited 26th Feb '15 2:13:00 PM by WaxingName

I'd call it more All-Loving Hero taken to a crippling extreme.

Whatever you call it, sounds like a good story.

I'm with Zeal. That's not being nice or good, that's being obtuse and apparently lacking the ability to learn from experience. I can't see how someone wold make it out of childhood with that attitude intact. Plus, it's a one-note joke.