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Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#2251: Nov 14th 2017 at 4:01:13 PM

According to our page, DONTNOD Entertainment is already working on Life is Strange 2. Was that not confirmed?

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#2252: Nov 16th 2017 at 2:09:32 AM

It's been known from before BtS was announced (they're working on it alongside Vampyr).

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#2253: Nov 18th 2017 at 5:25:26 PM

So, to pass the time until episode 3 comes out, I've started a recap page for the LiS series: Recap.Life Is Strange

I've already recapped Life is Strange Ep 01 "Chrysalis", but if anyone wants to tweak it or recap another episode, go ahead.

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HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#2254: Nov 18th 2017 at 7:32:40 PM

So a while back you may recall I gave three reasons why, despite generally favoring The Needs of the Many in similar moral dilemmas, I prefer the Bae ending in LIS.

With a bit of Fridge Logic, I've thought of a fourth:

Namely, "Chloe dying stops the storm" does nothing to explain the first vision of the storm, at the very beginning of the game, which happened before Max saved Chloe or knew about her powers. In fact, it arguably makes it make less sense. So, the universe or time or Native American spirits or what have you gives her a fantastic vision to tell her, what? Don't use your awesome powers? You're in the best of all possible worlds so sit back and do nothing? Not a palatable message to me, sorry.

I do wonder if some of the bits that got axed due to budget constraints might have included a clarification, but given all the Twin Peaks influence, the show that's the KING of "everything is ambiguous and nothing gets answered," maybe not.

edited 18th Nov '17 7:36:02 PM by HamburgerTime

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2255: Nov 18th 2017 at 7:37:38 PM

It's a Stable Time Loop.

But yes, pretty much it's kind of a ridiculously awful situation where apparently Great Power Means Great Irresponsibility and if you have abilities you shouldn't use them to help others. There's a reason why its' considered a shitty ending either way.

edited 18th Nov '17 7:38:40 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#2256: Nov 18th 2017 at 7:59:21 PM

I have heard one interpretation that makes it easier to swallow, though: Chloe was fated to die, but Max was supposed to use her powers - she was given them in order to have a lifetime of adventures in a single week with her old friend, to make saying goodbye easier. I'll admit that's pretty cute.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2257: Nov 18th 2017 at 8:02:57 PM

I admit part of me wants the storm to happen anyway and Max goes, "Fuck it" revives Chloe and then realizes the purpose of her power was to save as many people as possible during the storm as a gift from Native American spirits/God.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#2258: Nov 18th 2017 at 8:09:02 PM

Part of the problem was that there's so little explanation of the power at all. I mean yes, ambiguity can work well and for the most part this series makes good use of it, but they don't explain it in the slightest. Max and Chloe never even try to figure out where the power came from. It's just randomly there. Is Max the only one with a power like this in the world? Are there people with other, different supernatural powers? Is it going to randomly stop working one day, or is the only limit how much her body can take?

Over the course of the game, I built up a theory that Rachel had the same power, which was why she seemed so perfect and everyone loved her so much, but at this point who knows.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#2259: Nov 18th 2017 at 8:25:30 PM

Max and Chloe never even try to figure out where the power came from.

They do. It's all over their rooms in Episode 2. It's tucked away from the main plot and you have to search the environment to find it, but Max and Chloe both spent the better part of a night researching time travel - you can find open tabs on Max's laptop that say as much, and Max comments on how sincere Chloe's attempt at research was.

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HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
#2260: Nov 18th 2017 at 8:27:36 PM

Arcadia Bay is sacred land, and there's probably good magic in it. It was built on the site of a settlement where Native Americans and white settlers actually got along, and had at least one important ritual site that the Prescotts disturbed. I mean, if anything caused the storm...

edited 18th Nov '17 8:29:35 PM by HamburgerTime

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
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#2261: Nov 19th 2017 at 8:48:39 AM

I don't think the ending is perfectly executed, but I still think it fits the theme.

The whole point of the game is basically "there will be consequences". IMO the biggest criticism of the game as a whole is that they didn't put enough ambiguity into the results. We needed fewer:

  • Do x, y and z to get the objectivally best outcome ("Lisa the plant dies if you overwater her or forget to water her at all" ).

and more:

  • Morally ambiguous choices ("Steal this money to pay off Frank/don't steal from charity, jerk!").
  • Choices borne from succeeding at a challenge that affect other choices' outcomes ("Whether you solve the puzzle and hide in the closet changes the outcome, but you still have to choose between getting Max in trouble and getting Chloe in trouble.")
  • Your choices will affect how easy it is to get this objectivally better outcome (the conversations with Kate in episode 2 and the one with Frank in episode 4).
  • You have some good choices and some bad, but which ones are which depend on previous actions ("You can accuse David, Nathan or Mr. Jefferson, but you'd better have gathered some evidence!")

An ending where everything is super happy and Max/the player doesn't need to make a hard choice just wouldn't make sense, even if you can "earn" it with exactly the right set of choices.

At the same time, it would be nice if there were ways to soften the blow.

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#2262: Nov 20th 2017 at 1:43:51 PM

For those who don't know, DONTNOD are doing a survey.

So, if you want to let them know there's something you really, really loved/hated about LiS, now's your chance. tongue

edited 20th Nov '17 1:44:10 PM by Bisected8

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#2263: Nov 20th 2017 at 5:45:26 PM

Heh, I was going to post that. :p [nja]

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2264: Nov 20th 2017 at 5:49:47 PM

I did the survey and said at the end, "I know you want to move on but please just bring back Chloe and Max and time travel. It may not be the artistically brave choice but it's what I want. Throw in Kate and Warren to if you can."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#2265: Nov 20th 2017 at 5:53:07 PM

I can't remember what I asked for. I think it was something along the lines of I will haunt your children for all eternity if you don't make Life Is Strange 2, you have one job Dontnod, one job, don't ruin this for me - or something to that effect.

Maybe it was something about how inspirational their choice of main characters were.

I think I threw in something about keeping Ashley Burch on the writing staff and making more... divisive, multiple-choice style endings.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
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#2266: Nov 20th 2017 at 7:17:26 PM

Mine was basically "Max really reminded me of myself when I was uni. Also, it made me want to get back into game development, so thanks".

Also, I've done recaps for episodes 1-3 now, and I'm sandboxing 4 now, if anyone wants to proof read it: Sandbox.Life Is Strange Ep 04 Dark Room

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#2267: Nov 20th 2017 at 7:36:55 PM

Not to digress, but I did want to ask what we thought of each game's opening music.

LIS Opening Theme 1-hour version It's got a nice mix of happy and sad, nostalgic and gentle. Like Max. LIS is broader in scope than BTS so it feels more expansive, more inclusive somehow. This one's more uplifting.

So peaceful and lovely....sad, too...

soft indie folk?

BTS Opening Theme 1-hour version. It's just... eerie, melancholic. Not quite as happy as LIS's, but not quite as sad, irritable, like Chloe. BTS is more character-driven, so it feels tailored to Chloe.

The drums kind of threw me off at first. I immediately sized it up as not being quite as good as LIS's, but, with time, it grew on me.

This song is Chloe's life.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
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#2268: Nov 20th 2017 at 7:47:03 PM

I think the first game's theme perfectly captures the sleepy, West coast feeling they were going for, while still sounding slightly mysterious. And all with guitars. In short, exactly what you want for a Twin Peaks inspired indie game.

BTS's also sounds great. It's just as slow and steady, but rather than belonging to someone who's feeling overwhelmed by what lies ahead, it comes across as more depressed and lethargic, even a little bit desperate. Exactly what we're getting by switching from Max (overwhelmed by responsibility) to Chloe (overwhelmed by the feeling she's well and truly fucked, and going nowhere).

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#2269: Nov 20th 2017 at 8:21:58 PM

Heh. Well-put. [tup]

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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#2270: Nov 20th 2017 at 8:44:12 PM

" So, the universe or time or Native American spirits or what have you gives her a fantastic vision to tell her, what? Don't use your awesome powers? You're in the best of all possible worlds so sit back and do nothing? Not a palatable message to me, sorry. "

Pretty much, the same can be said of Time travel in Prince of Persia when he left that behind, or The Butterfly efect, where the protagonist who can a trick similiar to Max(travel into past event and change the outcome by looking into picture) end buring is album and driving away is love interest to save her.

In general the message is clear:Time travel let to trouble, DONT use.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2271: Nov 20th 2017 at 9:27:35 PM

Eh, it's a stupid message as it translates to, "Girl finds herself incredibly gifted but suppresses her gift because it is better to be normal and conform to the way the world is than change it."

Fuck that message, especially for a budding artist like Max.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#2272: Nov 20th 2017 at 9:35:32 PM

But, from the first trailer onward:

"Life's about choices - what if you could change yours?"

As it turns out, by Episode 5:

"You can't always have things the way you want them

  • A) either accept the things that you can't change
  • or B) accept the consequences of your actions and live your life accordingly (and change the things you can)"

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#2273: Nov 20th 2017 at 9:53:40 PM

Alternate Aesop Interpretation is a thing for a reason.

Why Death of the Author exists.

In this case, what they tried to go for wasn't necessarily what people got and like Edward Cullen being a psycho stalker—I can't say the audience is necessarily wrong.

Mostly because I can't get behind "Letting an innocent die" or "letting a town die"

It's like ME 3—all of the choices are unacceptable.

edited 20th Nov '17 9:54:12 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#2274: Nov 21st 2017 at 5:19:43 AM

Well, I can respect that. That's just not something that bothered me about this game. I liked the tragic, inevitable nature of the ending, and the little drops of hope in either ending. Glass half full and all that.

edited 21st Nov '17 5:21:33 AM by Soble

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#2275: Nov 21st 2017 at 7:27:59 PM

Right, that's episode 5's recap drafted: Sandbox.Life Is Strange Ep 05 Polarized

I'll take another look at it tomorrow (and hopefully catch any typos and grammatical errors), but if anyone wants to proof read it, feel free.

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