The Navy Thread

I am curious about the SM-6 A Su W capabilities, how fast an SAM/ABM missile would reach a surface target and how many damage it would inflict? I know the SM-6 is huge but it is the warhead impact that is making me wonder.

The warhead isn't big at all compared to the dedicated ASMs, but the publicly-revealed speed for SM-6 is Mach 4, and the missile body itself is pretty large. Plus, the USN has been using older SMs as ASUW weapons as well, although until pretty recently (i.e., SM-2ER Block IV and its IIR seeker) those were limited to line-of-sight. At least one Iranian frigate during Praying Mantis got a faceful of Standards and it did not survive the experience.

(Memories in Dangerous Waters using the Perry's Standard missiles against Russian surface combatants, because the bastards would effortless blast my Harpoons out of the air.)

Barring starting an uncontrollable fire or sparking a secondary explosion, a Standard is unlikely to sink a ship by itself, but sure as hell can knock it out of the fight until the swarm of Harpoons or other larger missiles arrive to finish the job.

edited 4th Feb '16 8:43:40 PM by SabresEdge

Well at least it shuts some of the loudmouths who don't stop crying about "Hurr the USN doesn't any any super sonic A Su W missiles durr", now the USN can simply spam everything on its arsenal.

So the Navy's new force-on-force combat doctrine is FIRE EVERYTHING!!.

Methinks some Navy planners have been reading the Honor Harrington books. Expect to see Tomahawks with dual-booster stages and accompanying C2 and EW drones allowing the Navy to swarm attack an enemy fleet from their anchorage in Hawaii

Some more nuanced thoughts: With them re-tasking a supersonic SAM to go after enemy ships, there are a couple of interesting implications, off the top of my head:

DD Gs and C Gs waging Wild Weasel missions, using their Standards to home in on the enemy's Anti-Air radar and go for the eyes, Boo.

Alternately, just forcing the enemy to waste precious missiles trying to intercept the incoming fast movers, allowing them to screen for the harder-hitting Tomahawks.

I still think the most asshole funniest strategy would be to have a SSGN unload their Harpoon batteries from immediately underneath the enemy fleet, just for the looks on their faces when a volley of Harpoons breaches like a pod of angry attack dolphins in the middle of their formation.

edited 4th Feb '16 9:07:18 PM by AFP

Oh good. The Jeune École are back. In real life, the last time they were prevalent, it led to the battlecruiser.

So whats next? US Navy launching Pod-Laying Battleships?

(and now I'm wondering if that would work? Develop floating Tomahawk launchers that can be dropped by other ships to be able to launch more of them simultaneously. Though I assume even if it works it ends up Awesome, but Impractical)

edited 5th Feb '16 1:46:56 AM by 3of4

I think pod-laying VLC Cs will come first.

Oh. Shit. Just imagine how many missile pods you could fit in those. Them's big ships.

If they are converting an Anti-Air missile to ASM I would imagine there may be some warhead change ups but unless I misread that they are talking about just firing the RIM-174 as is. While it has a blast frag warhead that is aimed at proximity kills of in flight targets, ASM's work best when they dig in then go boom. However remember even the little Exocet can make a bit of mess of even a big ship. RIM-174 is over 3,000lbs and notably faster. Even with that blast frag going off after impact it will likely punch into just about anything at its velocity and weight. I also imagine that blast frag is somewhere between 200-300lbs for my money on a minimum likely packed with hardened steel or tungsten fragment/shrapnel so it should do something interesting inside when it goes off. If they really wanted to they could change up the seekers a bit, slap on a heavier blast warhead with a penetrating cap to make it SAP missile or they could do the nasty thing and make it a shaped charge warhead missile.

edited 5th Feb '16 2:08:07 AM by TuefelHundenIV

But the Tomahawk cruise missile is also subsonic speed. Using the Standard missile family in ASUW is like using the 5"/38 caliber twin guns on an Iowa or South Dakota class battleship against another battleship. An auxiliary weapon, not a primary.

Converting Tomahawk to ASM capabilities just partially addresses the USN's severe case of being outgunned at sea. That is to say it partially alleviates the short range issue they've always had since the 1950s.

But didn't the Jeune École also lead to the development of the Aircraft Carrier? The first one used in combat was a modified Royal Navy battlecruiser, after all (although the US Navy had operated planes from modified cruisers in small-scale experiments before WWI).

edited 5th Feb '16 6:20:24 AM by AFP

The USN are still better than most NATO navies, who on the whole, (used to) concentrate on ASW work. But, I guess you'd prefer every US Navy vessel to be capable of hitting a orbiting satellite with a gun?

edited 5th Feb '16 9:00:48 AM by Greenmantle

Meh. I'd prefer being able to write my name on the Moon with a naval gun.

CHA-

-IR

One, yes every Navy vessel should have orbit-capable gunnery. And multiple guns per ship.

Two, the USN is only "better" in the sense that it has aircraft carriers. Put a Tico or Burke up against many of their counterparts and they come across as either underarmed or way too heavy for the arms they do have. There's 30-40-50 year old Soviet destroyers like the Sovremennyy class that not only whup a Burke or Tico in gun armament (4 x 130mm in 2 twin guns) but can pack missiles like the P-270 Moskit or P-500 Bazalt that severely outgun the Tomahawk in speed and dedicated ASM capability and outrange the Harpoon.

And they STILL have room for SAM and ASW armaments.

In all due fairness to the Euro's, they basically built their fleets to act as auxiliaries to the US navy.

Different doctrines, different missions. The reason NATO ASMs were small and handy was because it was intended that everyone would carry a brace of missiles. Even the merest convoy escorts like the Knoxes could easily throw eight Harpoons at a target if it were so required, and fighter-bombers carrying a brace of Exocets or Harpoons could outrange any superheavy ASM carried by a surface combatant. Those, and subs, were intended to be the main ASUW platform.

This was because NATO navies were geared for ASW and AAW. Hard-fought experience suggested that the main threat would come from aircraft and subs, and it wouldn't make much sense to pack massive four-ton ASUW monsters if those were the main threat. The Soviet surface navy on the other hand armed up for a death-or-glory charge; losing an entire surface action group might be worthwhile if they could bag a careless US carrier for it (assuming they could get close enough).

Contrary to your assertion, by the way, Soviet Navy AAW lagged quite a bit. Until the development of the S-300, most Soviet SAMs were ~25nmi affairs, generally comparable to SM-1MR but less than the SM-2.

Report calls for the study of a second aircraft carrier for the Pacific region.

There's an update on the Philippine Navy's frigate program.

Arigatou, Japan!

^ Cue hypocritical Chinese protests.

Crossposting from the Military Thread.

How should South Korea deal with all those Nork submarines? That seems to be one of the only fields where the Norks clearly have advantage over the South.

Well, there's the fact that it has larger infantry, but considering their equipment, training, and nutrition, I have a feeling that it will go like Somali militia vs Rangers and Delta Force, only not as extreme.

Watch most of them fail catastrophically on their own and let us handle the rest.

Well, I hope that's becomes the case. Actually wait, that means Second Korean War has already broke out.

Should that war actually happens, please happen after I die so I wouldn't have to go back to military.

I remember reading in a textbook in one of the classes back in elementary school (it was called Moral Life, I believe), about how one taxi driver spotted a submarine while taking a smoke break. And yes, it ended with a lesson of CONSTANT VIGILANCE OR FUCKING COMMIES WILL GET YOU.

-sighs- And back then I thought the Norks would be an absolutely terrifying and powerful enemy....

That pretty much.

They tried to launch a SSBM from one a while back, and all the South Koreans found after words were the hatch.....

....

Which is not a good sign