Suggestion: Bigger Bad

In light of the current repair shop thread on Bigger Bad (or at least the trope formerly known as Bigger Bad), I think that we should have a picture to help with defining it. I think I found a good image for the trope. But I want to have it approved before I put it up.

The picture can be thought of as a metaphor for Bigger Bad: Thanos is greater than Ronan, but out of focus compared to Ronan, who is more noticeable than Thanos.

edited 4th Oct '14 7:26:14 PM by SatoshiBakura

Opened.

So what is the trope?

Also, those guys (and girl?) don't look particularly villainous IMO. Mayyybe the one in the back.

edited 4th Oct '14 5:29:17 PM by rodneyAnonymous

That looks to be Man Behind the Man.

You are asking why they don't look villainous. A villain doesn't always have to be Obviously Evil. What's going here is that the girl on the bottom (Nebula) is The Dragon to the man standing above her (Ronan) who is the Big Bad and The Heavy . But behind him is Thanos, who is the Bigger Bad because while Ronan works for him, Thanos doesn't get involved in the film all that much, and Ronan turns on him to become the main antagonist (but Thanos still remains at large).

Two points. 1: You are implying that The Man Behind the Man and Bigger Bad cannont overlap. 2:Thanos isn't involved in the film that much, so he's a Bigger Bad.

The image does show that which is my point.

The main point of the picture is that while Thanos is behind Ronan and is greater, he's in the background and out of focus compared to Ronan. Ronan is front and center, metaphorically showing his position as Big Bad and The Heavy while Thanos is metaphorically shown to be a Bigger Bad.

Thanos may be behind Ronan, but he's not as in focus. That's what makes him a Bigger Bad of Guardians of the Galaxy.

Having not seen whatever that is, exactly who are you talking about? I see 3 people there and all of them look to be a escalating version of Man Behind the Man.

edited 4th Oct '14 7:40:53 PM by Memers

Well, here's what's going on, but here be spoilers. In the film, Thanos wants the Infinity Stone, and he has Ronan get it. Assisting Ronan is Thanos' adopted daughter, Nebula, who serves as Ronan's Dragon (well, she is a Co-Dragon with Korath, who is not in the picture). While Thanos is behind Ronan, Ronan is ultimately in charge of the whole thing. When Ronan does get the Infinity Stone about halfway through the film, he takes it for himself and Nebula also stays with Ronan, and Thanos doesn't do anything after that (though he still remains a greater power than Ronan). If you want a better summery, read the Wikipedia article or go to the article at This Very Wiki. But that's the general gist of what's going on in the villain hierarchy in the film. There isn't exactly a true The Man Behind the Man thing going on. It's just that the Big Bad is supposed to get something for the Bigger Bad, and has Co-Dragons working for him.

edited 4th Oct '14 7:47:31 PM by SatoshiBakura

It's not The Man Behind the Man. Ronan betrays Thanos partway though, so they aren't even aligned for most of the movie. Ronan is the main bad guy, but Thanos is a much greater threat, even if he barely appears.

Again, the image shows none of that.

Again, it's supposed to be a metaphor. Ronan is not the biggest, but he is the most noticeable, while Thanos is bigger, but he is mostly in the background. Again, it's a metaphor showing the relationship between Big Bad and Bigger Bad.

That might work if it didn't have 3 people in it like that, they all look like villains hence the problem.

Maybe we should dip into Star Wars? The emp is certainly the Bigger Bad, especially in Ep 1-5.

edited 4th Oct '14 8:03:11 PM by Memers

Page images should make sense to people who aren't familiar with the characters.

Also, no, I didn't ask that.

Palpatine is not an example of Bigger Bad. He's the Big Bad because he's manipulating the fight. I should edit the picture to remove Nebula though.

Edit: Changed it. Added a caption to boot.

Edit: Crap, caption fail.

edited 4th Oct '14 8:08:54 PM by SatoshiBakura

The Emperor will not be used. Palpatine is a Big Bad as he directly causes conflict. He's not The Heavy, but he's still the main baddie. I would say he only counts as a Bigger Bad in Episode IV, but even then he doesn't appear. Thanos would be a much better example.

Hello? I'm still sticking with this Thanos pic unless someone has a better example that's not Palpatine.

I think that while this and The Man Behind the Man can overlap, having an image that seems overlapping is not a good way to illustrate a trope, since it confuses the tropes. It's much the same like having the same image on two similar tropes.

I know the image kind of overlaps with The Man Behind the Man, but I don't see any other way to show Bigger Bad. If you find an image that shows "villain greater than the Big Bad but not as involved" (which this one shows metaphorically) without also showing The Man Behind the Man, than please post it here.

edited 11th Oct '14 11:15:02 AM by SatoshiBakura

My problem with the image is that it doesn 't look like Thanos. Yes, he has blue eyes and light purple skin, but that image barely differentiates the skin color from the cosmic space clouds that make him up.

The caption might need some tweaking, but maybe this could work?

That's Just a Face and a Caption, without the face. We need a Big Bad for it to be compared to. How about releasing the Sealed Evil in a Can, like this one?

edited 11th Oct '14 1:01:56 PM by SatoshiBakura

I think the OP suggestion is thus far the best. I can't tell what's going on in any of the others.

The OP image can work but it'll need a caption.

How about this suggestion for a caption?

• When The Man Behind the Man doesn't feel like pulling any strings.