Misused (alt titles crowner 14 April 2019): Ghost Lights

So, if this is an index, or a disambig, then we need a shorter description, and a part of that, that says something like:

.

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So, is this for "Lights made by Ghosts"? If so, then why is Spark Fairy on it? And what's this trope é concept's connection to the tropes listed in the current description?

edited 27th Jan '18 6:15:26 PM by Malady

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"Lights made by the supernatural, often restless spirits"

Also, just added examples from Sickly Green Glow.

edited 27th Jan '18 10:54:11 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

- Cool!

So, anyone against making Laconic.Ghost Lights = "Light projected by supernatural beings"?

'Cause its gotta differ from lighting spells? 'Cause that would be encompassed if the definition was just "Supernatural Lighting".

Should Supernatural Lighting be a redirect??

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Supernatural Lighting just sounds like a wizard made things glow. Or lights created by magic.

Which is a thing actually, Skyrim for example has lighting spells that can either have the light source be projected on something at a distance or float around you replacing the need for a torch.

Probably a supertrope to all these lighting tropes actually.

edited 29th Jan '18 5:36:59 AM by Memers

- All the VideoGame.Elder Scrolls has a similar spell, from Morrowind on, at least.

So, we done here? Morgue, and TLP Supernatural Lightning as supertrope with Light Spell, and Spell Glow as Sister Tropes, among others?

Whoops, no, still need a laconic?

edited 29th Jan '18 5:44:26 AM by Malady

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Spark Fairy was added because it's "supernatural lighting" not because it's "ghost-related or spirit-related supernatural lighting," though, wasn't it? I think a Supernatural Lighting supertrope would be the appropriate place for that and other magical lighting.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Those are not ‘Ghost lights’ though like at all seeing how Fairies are still living. Only a work like Final Fantasy X where the pyreflies are connected to undeath and ghosts would be something like this.

Spark Fairy would be linked to Magic Light Source like Dragon Age’s green Fade torches, Skyrim’s light spells and Blue Fire. And/Or a Bioluminescence trope where plants and animals create their own light.

Also probably need to edit spark fairy to make it clear that Hitodama is a very specific type of floating undead flame, usually depicted with a spiral in it.

edited 29th Jan '18 6:58:18 AM by Memers

Will-o'-the-Wisp is not strictly undead creatures either. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o'-the-wisp Wikipedia Link]] website cataloguing supernatural lights Page about folklore relating to WotW

If you exclude Spark Fairy for being living creatures, then you exclude the Will-o'-the-Wisp for also being living creatures.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Then that one would need to be linked to a Bioluminescence or Magic Light Source trope in addition to Ghost Lights since some might be living and such

Faries are universally living and really are not connected at all with any kind of ghosts and the like.

edited 29th Jan '18 7:19:33 AM by Memers

Every square is a rectangle. Every example of a subtrope is also an example of the supertrope. Every example of Will-o'-the-Wisp is an example of Ghost Lights.

Correction: those flames are already listed in Will-o'-the-Wisp because "Wisps mindlessly attack in the Fade while in the physical world, they pose as light sources such as lanterns to lead the living into dangerous areas."

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I have seen uses of them but not being connected to ghosts but alright then there.

But that still doesn’t make a Spark Fairy a Ghost Light, The two are unrelated aside from possibly resembling each other, the individual examples would need to be in one of the two supertropes to be related.

If Will-o'-the-Wisp is not always an example of Ghost Lights (regardless of whether they're distinct tropes, which they are), then it's not a subtrope. If WOTW is not always a spirit or undead creature, then it seems inaccurate to call its supertrope ghost lights. It could be a sister trope, since they're related concepts, but it doesn't seem to make sense that they're subtropes that are only sometimes subtropes. And Spark Fairy looks more like a supertrope to Will-o'-the-Wisp as the more general concept of "animate speck of light."

edited 29th Jan '18 9:49:34 AM by WaterBlap

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Ghost Lights, since the first page, is supposed to describe a "missing Supertrope for ghostly/unearthly lights in general". Fairies are not of "earthly" origin as I understand it.

My objection is to making the trope more narrow than intended. Spark Fairy is a light with supernatural origin. We could reopen the discussion of "best name for the supertrope", especially since that discussion never really closed.

edited 29th Jan '18 8:01:55 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I would like to reopen that but in a different direction.

Ghost Lights would be related to well ‘ghosts’ and things connected with spirits and the like, which would be covered by Willo Wisp or Hitodama’s Flame.

We are missing an actual supertrope to that for general magic, ki, spiritual light sources and spells. Fairies which would be that or if we have a trope for Bioluminescence depending on the example.

If you want to make Ghost Lights a general unnatural and non-technological light source created by magic, ki, spiritual and the like then I think it would need another title in addition to needing to go through YKTTW cause the examples are not that. Some Spark Fairy would be that.

Also Fairies are ‘earthly’ to a degree depending on the example, the original source of their legend are Fireflies which are very real and many examples treat them as natural creatures who create light via Bioluminescence like fireflies. For example the Star Trek TNG example on the page isn’t magical at all.

edited 29th Jan '18 11:20:55 PM by Memers

From my reading of the definition, I would call that misuse. Spark Fairy has a magical requirement in the description:

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How narrowly are you defining "spirits and the like"? I include angelic spirits, mischievous spirits, and a number of other things in that category. If you exclude non-human spirits, we're back to Will-o'-the-Wisp not being Ghost Lights.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

For the science-oriented examples, we have Glowing Flora and Bioluminescence Is Cool.

For magic-oriented examples of "magical lighting," we have Fantastic Light Source. What we are missing is a trope for "magical creatures that glow or consist of light." Some of which are undead (e.g. "ghostly") whereas others are most certainly not (light elves) and yet others are sometimes either (Spark Fairies).

Note that in some cultures, "spirit" does not equate with "ghost." A spirit could be demons, ghosts (i.e. soul of deceased human), trolls, jotunar (giants), deities, angels, saints, The Fair Folk, elves, dwarfs (swartalfar), "the Holy Spirit", etc. "Spirits and the like" is way too vague. One man's "spirits" are ghosts while another man's "spirits" are demons while yet another's are "house wights" and elves. For the purposes of "spirit that shines or produces light," almost any of those spirits could count (except dwarfs which are literally "dark elves") but not always and not necessarily. For the purposes of troping the concept, I suggest something with the word "magic," "magical," or "fantastic" in it since that's easier to understand for the greatest number of people. For a pun on "bioluminescence" I'd suggest Magicaluminescence but for ease-of-comprehension I'd suggest Magical Light Beings or Fantastic Light Beings. Ghostly Lights could be a suptrope of that, if there are enough such creatures to warrant keeping that as a trope between those specific creatures and the more general beings-made-of-light and beings-that-shine.

edited 30th Jan '18 6:18:15 AM by WaterBlap

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Supernatural Creatures Glow, Supernatural Lights, Glowing Creatures Are Magic?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Could these tropes simply be suptropes of Power Glows?

Sometimes tangibly related, heavily dependent on the example, but they are not subtropes.

I've always been in favour of Supernatural Lights. It's just that, at the time, everyone seemed to want 'ghost' in the title somehow, so I suggested Ghostly Lights as well.

The thing about Supernatural Lights is that it's also an existing term for referencing these kinds of mystical lights that crop up in mythology and folklore all around the world, and have been used in published books when talking about the concept.

For example, in reference to the Iroquois "witch lights", this is a quote from the book "Iroquois Supernatural: Talking Animals and Medicine People":

edited 8th Mar '18 3:29:56 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Made a crowner. Once we finalize a name, I'll start Cross Wicking.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

8:0 in favour of rename.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

10:0 in favor of rename. Close and make a new crowner?

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!